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mhh__ 4 days ago

By definition every penny of profit always comes at someone's expense but I don't think we'd advocate for nationalising Tesco's?

jemmyw 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

That's true, but supermarkets compete with one another on price and other factors. They are motivated to do things to get more customers. Yes, there are many cases where supermarkets have been bad actors, but that's solvable with competition regulation. Water service is very different, and the current setup in the UK seems pretty insane - you can't have competition on who supplies water to your house. People aren't going to move location because of the quality of the water supply until things get very bad. They are motivated to spend as little as possible.

You can set up a system where companies are involved in the delivery of water in a way that let's them compete. For example, national entity owns the pipes and needs to provide a given service, companies compete for pipe maintenance, IT services, etc. It's hardly difficult to think up a system that is mostly free market and better in every way than what the people from the UK have to suffer through.

e4325f 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Railways are another example of competition not being possible and where privatisation makes no sense.

bluGill 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Competition is possible, it just is rarely worth it. NYC subways worked fairly well as a competitive system until the city started passing maximum price laws (which in turn meant they couldn't maintain the system and eventually the city took it over). However the competition meant redundant service to the dense areas as each built there, at the expense of less dense areas that should have got service. It also meant that where lines did cross each other (a complex task even in 3d) they generally didn't built transfers even though a single system would have.

The claim competition is not possible is therefor false. We can debate if we want it, but it is incorrect to claim it cannot work.

qcnguy 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Competition in rail does exist in the UK and privatization turned around the network's fortunes. The ridership graph is very clear:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail#...

Traffic dropped a lot in the Great Depression but stabilized immediately after, and remained stable right up until nationalization in 1948 at which point the network entered a period of continuous decline, eventually falling to a level of ridership last seen in 1865. That is a staggering failure.

The moment the railways were privatized ridership starts going up again, despite the privatization not being complete and being unable to roll back the huge damage done under the decades of state ownership (before nationalization the railway companies were entirely self sufficient, which they no longer are).

So to argue that privatization makes "no sense" you have to ignore the fact that when privately managed usage of the railways goes up and when run by the state it goes down. If the goal of the railway is to be used, then it does make sense.

throw0101d 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> That's true, but supermarkets compete with one another on price and other factors.

Except when they merge/consolidate and say they can find savings (which of course will be passed onto consumers) through "efficiencies" and "synergies".

jemmyw 4 days ago | parent [-]

Thus my comment about competition regulation.

drowsspa 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Tesco's is infrastructure?

mhh__ 4 days ago | parent [-]

You've heard of "food" I assume?

autoexec 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

If "food" were a singular universally used product, and units of food were totally interchangeable I'd say that food should be treated like a utility. Instead there's a lot of different types of food from ultra-processed crap that's sat on a shelf for years to whole/fresh foods and everything from the skill of the manufacturer/baker/chef to the quality of the ingredients used will result in massive differences in the food and its costs.

That isn't really the case with water and power (or even internet access). Water is water. Electricity is Electricity. There's no artisanal organic Electricity made from the finest ingredients that powers your stuff any better. You either have a safe, functioning product or it isn't. Everyone needs the exact same stuff, it makes sense for the government to supply it. Not everyone needs, or even wants, the same foods.

IAmBroom 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not normally considered infrastructure.

Food distribution networks might be infrastructure, but POS stores aren't, generally. Drinking water supplies are infrastructure; drinking fountains aren't.

mhh__ 4 days ago | parent [-]

The infrastructure is the whole thing, right? When I say tesco I don't mean the shops!

elliotto 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Food production is largely nationalised due to heavy subsidies provided to farmers. Different countries have different policies here, but in my country of Australia it meets the definition of a nationalised industry by everything but name.

Food distribution as not, and again in my country we are having constant investigations into monopolistic anti consumer behaviour by the large supermarkets.

passivegains 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

they sell water, too!