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legohead 4 days ago

I blame the prevalence of package mangers in the first place. Never liked em, just for this reason. Things were fine before they became mainstream. Another annoying reason is package files that are set to grab the latest version, randomly breaking your environment. This isn't just npm of course, I hate them all equally.

stevenpetryk 4 days ago | parent [-]

I'm a little confused, is this rage bait or what?

> Things were fine before they became mainstream

As in, things were fine before we had commonplace tooling to fetch third party software?

> package files that are set to grab the latest version

The three primary Node.js package managers all create a lockfile by default.

int_19h 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> As in, things were fine before we had commonplace tooling to fetch third party software?

In some ways they were. I remember how much friction it was to take a dependency in your typical desktop C++ or Delphi app in late 90s - early 00s. And because of that, developers would generally be hesitant to add a new dependency without a strong justification, especially so any kind of dependency that comes with its own large dependency tree. Which, in turn, creates incentives for library authors to create fairly large, framework-style libraries. So you end up with an ecosystem where dependencies are much more coarse and there are fewer of them, so dependency graphs are shallow. Whether this is an advantage or a disadvantage in its own right can be debated, but it's definitely less susceptible to this kind of attack because updating dependencies in such a system is also much more involved; it's not something that you do with a single `npm install`.

nananana9 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I mostly share GP's sentiment, although they didn't argue their point very well.

> As in, things were fine before we had commonplace tooling to fetch third party software?

Yes. The languages without a dominant package manager (basically C and C++) are the only ones that have self-contained libraries, that you can just drag into your source tree.

This is how you write good libraries - as can be seen by the fact that for many problems, there's a powerful C (or C++, but usually C) library with minimal (and usually optional) dependencies, that is the de-facto standard, and has bindings for most other languages. Think SDL, ffmpeg, libcurl, zlib, libpng/jpeg, FreeType, OpenSSL, etc, etc.

That's not the case for libraries written in JS, Python, or even other compiled languages like Go and Rust - libraries written in those languages come with a dependency tree, and are never ported to other languages.