| ▲ | dwood_dev 7 days ago |
| I used to have an extremely negative view on all this serial number pairing that Apple does, then I found out why. Within mainland China, Apple was facing fraud of having their devices purchased, stripped for genuine parts, and then rebuilt with knockoffs and sold as new to unsuspecting victims within China or returned. This whole thing that we hate in the west was in response to that fraud. I don't like it at all, but it's not all Apple being assholes. |
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| ▲ | josephcsible 6 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| That would be a good argument for Apple showing a warning every time it's powered on or something, but not for it refusing to work altogether. |
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| ▲ | leoh 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, but then you could just flash with a different ROM or something and prevent that warning from being displayed? | | |
| ▲ | areoform 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Then what stops this "counter-measure" from "working?" Could they not just "flash with a different ROM or something" to allow the part to work normally? I genuinely doubt that the level of theft ever rose to a large enough margin, if it did, Apple would have pulled out of China. For reference, Apple employs ex-NSA, CIA, TLA professionals to solve this exact problem with a near endless budget and 0 oversight and accountability. Most notably, one of the organisational leaders was caught bribing the sheriff's office for concealed carry permits, https://www.ft.com/content/e73676d7-c6bc-4b07-b9bf-9bd702f1f... / https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/29/apples_chief_security... | | |
| ▲ | jackvalentine 6 days ago | parent [-] | | > I genuinely doubt that the level of theft ever rose to a large enough margin, if it did, Apple would have pulled out of China. There was a point where the black market in China was making more on Apple products than Apple itself. They initially tried to have stricter warranty conditions in China as a fix, but state media decided this was an affront to the country: https://www.infoworld.com/article/2271627/apple-clarifies-wa... Hence, the technical fix. Why pull out when you can apply a technical fix and retain both access to the biggest consumer electronics market in the world and maintain the good graces of the country that manufactures almost all your products? |
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| ▲ | shakna 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you could do that, you could just flash a new ROM to ignore serial errors, too. The checks are not entirely in software, and would not be in showing the error, either. | | |
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| ▲ | SchemaLoad 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The situation has changed recently for iphones. Parts are icloud locked now. While the part serial is registered to an icloud locked iphone. Any phone with those parts will refuse to work entirely until the part is either removed or the part is unlinked from the owners account. | | |
| ▲ | gorbypark 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This would be the way to go if on the flip side any part that was not iCloud locked could be paired without hassles. Phone stolen/lost/etc? Parts unusable. Phone iCloud unlocked? Parts free for use. Of course this depends on mitigating various ways thieves can iCloud unlock stolen phones..I think the current method is snatching the phone while it's in use and iCloud unlocking it? However that doesn't make much sense since I assume you need some sort of password to do so even if the phone is physically unlocked? | | |
| ▲ | SchemaLoad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | The current way is forcing the owner to icloud unlock it at knifepoint. But I'm pretty sure Apple made a change recently where you have to wait a few hours and pass faceid before the unlock finishees. |
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| ▲ | privacyking 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Source? What message does iOS show? | | |
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| ▲ | GuB-42 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The reason for that scam is that Apple doesn't make it easy to get genuine parts, so they have to be harvested from existing devices. I am sure that if the parts were available to anyone from Apple at a reasonable price (like Fairphone or Framework), these scammers would be out of business soon enough. Who would insist on genuine parts and yet choose a shady supplier if it was easy to buy from the manufacturer directly? |
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| ▲ | kube-system 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Fairphone and Framework don't have this issue because they're low volume and not really profitable targets for secondhand market shenanigans. A lot of popular android phones have been plagued by secondhand market garbage. People will take broken phones slap some new crappy parts on them that don't even meet original specs, and try to pass them off as something other than what they really are: repaired used phones. Doesn't matter if you can get original parts for them. If you can pass off a phone with crappy parts, you can make more money. | | |
| ▲ | GuB-42 6 days ago | parent [-] | | But then, why not just sell straight out fakes? Why bother with all the business of acquiring genuine parts and harvesting them. Just make it all fake and don't bother with harvesting. Harvesting is only worth it if genuine parts are difficult to obtain legitimately. Also realize that we are not just talking about an iPhone refusing to work with fake parts. We are talking about genuine parts from iPhone A not working with iPhone B of the exact same model. | | |
| ▲ | kube-system 6 days ago | parent [-] | | > But then, why not just sell straight out fakes? Because the price, availability, demand, and expertise required to source and/or manufacturer the different components of a phone are different, depending on the part. Third-party refurbishers derive their margin from exploiting these differences. That's why this market exists. For example, manufacturing the mainboard for a phone is quite expensive and requires components that only a few companies in the world can manufacture. A third-party refurbisher can source mainboards for phones much more cheaply and easily by buying phones that people have dropped and broken. It's the same reason junkyards exist for cars. The capital require required to manufacture an engine or transmission is quite high. However, removing one from a discarded vehicle is extremely easy and cheap. > Harvesting is only worth it if genuine parts are difficult to obtain legitimately. That doesn't make any sense. New and genuine parts are the most expensive components that can be used to repair phones. Third-party and used parts are almost universally cheaper than new original parts. If a refurbisher uses these parts, they can make more money, which is why they do it. > Also realize that we are not just talking about an iPhone refusing to work with fake parts. We are talking about genuine parts from iPhone A not working with iPhone B of the exact same model. Yeah, that's the second problem. Even cheaper than low quality third-party parts, are used genuine parts from stolen phones. That market has problems for two group groups. The people buying the phones are still getting Frankenstein phones consisting of used parts, and the people who bought the actual new phones from the manufacturer are now targeted by thieves. |
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| ▲ | specialist 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes and: Requiring genuine parts reduces risk of silent hardware pwnage. Which is a no-negotiable requirement these days. That said... I demand that Apple makes genuine parts available to end users and 3rd repair shops. And being 100% pro Right to Repair, I support repairs with non-genuine parts. For peace of mind, have your gear repaired by Apple. For the cost sensitive and tinkerers, you have options. |
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| ▲ | LtWorf 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Problem with doing repairs by apple is that they always go with "let's replace the motherboard" | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Because the time spent on diagnosing the specific problem and replacing just the faulty component would cost more. | | |
| ▲ | serf 6 days ago | parent [-] | | that's charitable. I would presume that the world's third largest company by market cap would be attracted to that option because it's the most profitable thing to do. Yes -- there is a nuance between 'most profitable' and 'most thrifty'. | | |
| ▲ | astrange 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | You don't get to be an extremely profitable company by doing things that cynical people online assume are the most profitable thing to do, since they always pick the most evil option assuming it's most profitable. | |
| ▲ | nozzlegear 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | How does AppleCare factor into your presumption? | | |
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| ▲ | kube-system 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is no viable solution to do component level repairs on high density PCBs at scale. | |
| ▲ | sieabahlpark 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | zdw 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A lot of "new" products in the "bargain" category can have remanufactured parts, even without telling the end users. For example, in this DankPods video he pulls apart two cube speakers, and while they look mostly the same on the outside, one has a Nokia-sized lithium battery that is directly soldered to, and the other has a swollen pouch pack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnabYBtJ2I&t=325s Unfortunately end users can't tell whether they got a "race to the bottom" item, so as much as I'd like cheap repairs, it seems like those also come with a huge amount of buyer beware that they may not know about. |
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| ▲ | AuthAuth 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sounds like more of an excuse than a reason. |
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| ▲ | jijijijij 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Within mainland China, Apple was facing fraud of having their devices purchased, stripped for genuine parts, and then rebuilt with knockoffs and sold as new to unsuspecting victims within China or returned. This doesn't make any sense. If Apple wasn't making genuine parts extremely valuable by locking down the hardware, making this proposed scam economically attractive, there would be no such scam. Circular logic. |
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| ▲ | bigstrat2003 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That is certainly the argument that is made. I don't believe it, however. I don't for one second think that Apple did that for the benefit of users and not as a way to turn an extra buck. |