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msh 5 days ago

In many countries charging a car in a wallplug is a fire hazard (they are not rated for the heat).

throwaway-blaze 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

This doesn't make sense. Wall plugs (like circuit breakers) are designed for a particular max amperage draw. If I have a 10A 120V circuit and wall plug, I can't charge my car at 8A?

I have wall ovens that connect via a 50A circuit. Do I need to worry about fire hazards when I bake something for hours and hours?

Volundr 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Not an electrician, consult a real one for any actual electrical work or questions.

It's complicated. Heat builds up over time. So for example your standard 15 amp breaker on a 14 gauge wire in the US is rated for 15 amps of intermittent use, but if you draw that continuously without letting the heat dissipate it becomes a fire hazard. IIRC circuits are generally rated for ~80% of their max load for continuous use, so that 15 amp circuit is considered good for 12 continuous. Or in your 10 amp example 8 should be ok.

Your oven and circuit should be sized such that your long cooks aren't a concern, if you look at it's label you'll probably find it has a max draw of well below 50amps, but if you have actual doubts ask a professional.

Astronaut3315 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Also not an electrician.

A concern for high current outlets in the US, such as NEMA 14-50, is that they weren't necessarily designed for a large number of plug/unplug cycles. Typically you'd plug your stove in and leave it there for years to decades.

If you use the same 14-50 outlet for car charging, which is not uncommon, the contacts can lose their grip over time. End users may want to take their mobile EVSE with them and incur cycles on the outlet. Properly installed but worn 14-50s have been known to melt or even catch fire under these conditions.

End users should prefer to have their EVSE(s) hardwired or installed with a higher grade outlet like Hubbell or Bryant.

hvb2 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Having charged 2 EVs on wall sockets for years, I've not seen them go over 12 amps, so that checks out.

One of those was a leaf

eldaisfish 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

i'm always surprised how people here downvote correct information. This is 100% correct because heat in electrical wiring is a function of power (current) and time. The vast majority of electrical devices in a typical home use under 80% of their rated power. The few that do use their full power, like a resistive heater, often do not run continuously.

In contrast, it is completely normal to charge an EV at a socket's maximum power for over ten hours straight. This time component is why charging EVs from a regular AC outlet can be a fire risk.

quesera 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

FWIW, oven/range circuits are notoriously overspecified.

Code in the US is 220V/50A. Your wall oven will get the same, despite having a much lower max draw than the usual oven/cooktop combination.

50A (upgraded from 30A several years ago) is specified for having the oven plus all cooktop elements ON. Maximum instantaneous draw will be below 50A. There's also the standard 20% headroom allotment, and some additional safety margin to account for the heat generated by all of the above being ON (or high duty cycle) for an extended period.

msh 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

https://aminacharging.com/articles/can-i-charge-my-car-in-a-...

Miraste 5 days ago | parent [-]

That still didn't explain anything. Surely the car could limit itself to 80% of standard socket rated output for continuous draw, like they do in other countries. Are Norwegian outlets commonly installed so far below spec that that will cause them to catch fire? What was the impetus for this regulation?

msh 5 days ago | parent [-]

I don’t know exactly for Norway as that was the best English article I could find. A standard danish outlet (they are crap) is 16A but is not rated for more than 6A if the load is continuous for more than 2 hours.

aidenn0 4 days ago | parent [-]

Then use a 6A charger? Assuming it's 2x the voltage of the US that's the same power as a 12A charger would be in the US, and I get plenty of charging at 16A (which is the maximum continuous load on a 20A circuit)

barbazoo 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Source?

schmookeeg 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I have a dryer outlet that caught fire charging our little i3. I'm not sure why GP said "some countries" -- I'm in the US. The heat warped the plastic just enough to bridge one leg of the power socket to ground. It got pretty melty before the house breaker stopped things.

The torched outlet was installed specifically to charge prior homeowner's EV and was only 3 years old.

I moved to an EV-rated 50A outlet which can handle the duty cycle. We have charged two EVs off of it and so far so good. It has a cute little green logo on it and costs 5x as much as a typical NEMA plug. :) Weighs about 5x as much too and grips the grizzl-e plug very tightly and with much larger contact areas.

I'm a believer.

vel0city 4 days ago | parent [-]

What was the specific connector for that "dryer outlet"? Was it an L6-30 30A receptacle that was constantly getting nearly 30A of load, or a cheaply made 14-50 outlet?

seltzered_ 4 days ago | parent [-]

The youtube channel 'State of Charge' has a number of videos talking about cheap connectors and/or lower spec connectors catching fire. Happens even on setups where people had a dedicated level 2 ev charger outlet (NEMA 14-50 , aka dryer outlet) but the installer used a connector not rated for enough current. See https://youtu.be/fzgxKChqjtc to start.

One needs to do one or possibly a combination of:

- Set the pin setting on a home charger for a lower current output. Theres also portable chargers with programmable current limiting, which I find more flexible.

- Replace with a better outlet/wiring setup. Many advocate for a hardwired setup over using an outlet.

vel0city 4 days ago | parent [-]

> NEMA 14-50 , aka dryer outlet

The reason why I was asking for the outlet is precisely because "dryer outlet" can mean a lot of different things. Dryers in the US usually don't even come with cords out of the box because people may have a few different plugs. Does it have a neutral? Is it 30A or 50A? All possibilities for a "dryer outlet".

msh 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

https://aminacharging.com/articles/can-i-charge-my-car-in-a-...

barbazoo 5 days ago | parent [-]

> And since your car needs so much power stored in its battery to drive, it will probably pull more power than any other electrical appliance in your home.

Probably? No, it pulls less than my dryer which runs at 240V15A I think but also just the same as my 1500W space heater. You can totally control how much power the charger should draw.

> With that much power, there’s a risk of overheating and fire. Unlike a dedicated EV charger, a socket is simply not equipped to handle the amount of electricity needed to charge a car battery.

Wrong assumption leads to wrong conclusion. Any charger you can physically plug in will work in a house that's wired up to standard.

msh 5 days ago | parent [-]

Your dryer will load the socket for far less time than a car charger and will probably not use 15A for the entire drying cycle.

It’s the long charge time that leads to heat buildup, not the max amp.

Where I am from standard outlets can deliver 16A but are not rated for more than 6A if the load is longer than 2 hours.

barbazoo 4 days ago | parent [-]

Here it's 15A and the charger itself actually tops out at 12A as is common. Perhaps that being common is how to avoid fires. I'm actually not sure now if that's a law or just best practice here.