> a version of minesweeper that was “forgiving:”

I think this diminishes the game. Sometimes you just don't have enough information to know for sure. Experiencing this in a low stakes situation like a minesweeper game reminds us that life is like that sometimes and we just have to make a guess and accept the consequences.

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npteljes 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, this really depends on what one's expectations are of a "game". Luck, as a component, is often contested. In case of the minesweeper, I'd argue there is either

A) No place for luck at all, either by making the game "forgiving", or generating a game that never has an ambiguous block, or

B) The game should make luck's presence more constant.

In case of Minesweeper, the most unfair event is when after a lot of pure skill-based play, the outcome ends up being luck based. As a game mechanic, this can work out to be challenging, or work as a surprise the first time, but it gets old pretty fast - because why bother putting in all that skill, just so be judged by luck in the end? And those who are thrilled by luck checks, will be turned away from the game because the exciting part comes last.

Because of this, I'd keep this logic game be about logic, or work luck into the game more deeply.

Solitaire is similar, with some of its starting positions being outright unwinnable. I'd just filter these out when creating a new game.

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freedomben 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Agree completely. The luck aspect kinda wrecked minesweeper for me. It's a super fun simple game, but after spending a lot of effort logic-ing my way through it, only to have to take a 50/50 or worse guess toward the end and have it blow me up, is deeply unsatisfying. When it comes at the beginning (that first block can be a bomb after all) it's not too bad, but at the end isn't cool

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JackC 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This is why Slay the Spire is as loved as it is -- clearly defined skill and luck checks delivered one after the other at the precise limits of your ability.

Minesweeper is more like a quirky old wooden board game, charming because it's always been what it is, warts and all.

	▲	npteljes 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		Balatro as well, I think. Luck there is a huge factor, and it's honest about it from the get-go.

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wkjagt 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I actually like the idea that it's always solvable. Like a sudoku puzzle. If a sudoku isn't solvable through logic, but requires guessing, it's considered an invalid puzzle.