ada1981 6 days ago

Can you explain why TOS violations in general are unethical?

charcircuit 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

If you enter into an agreement with someone you should follow the agreement to the best of your ability. Purposefully agreeing to agreements when you know you will violate them is exploitative behavior as you are taking advantage of someone because you are purposefully not holding up your end of the deal when you know that they will continue to hold up their end.

	▲	dns_snek 5 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> If you enter into an agreement with someone Upon review, it looks like you don't have to enter into an agreement with anyone in order to use this software, except its authors under the terms of the AGPL. > exploitative behavior Even if you want to frame it like that, it doesn't look good for you unless you assume we're imbeciles who don't keep score. You do not have any right to complain about exploitative behavior when you willfully exploit hundreds of millions of people by 1000 units and they "exploit" you by 1 unit in return. You're still a net exploiter in the relationship. > when you know that they will continue to hold up their end That's a lie, corporations unilaterally alter the terms of service without offering compensation all time.
	▲	rpdillon 5 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		You'd be correct if all of these contracts weren't essentially contracts of adhesion. The fact that the user has no agency to change the terms of the contract or really any say at all in what the terms of the agreement are waters down your argument significantly. In fact, the contracts are so asymmetrical that only one party has control over them and can change them at any time. The other party has no agency whatsoever.
	▲	ada1981 6 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I think in modern commerce TOS are things written in small print most reasonable people read of purposely agree too. I saw some BS in an owners manual for a washing machine that was attempting to imply that by using this machine I agreed to the TOS.. I mean, I guess. It doesn't seem like ethics has much to do with it.

▲

edoceo 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Typically they start with something like: by using this $SERVICE you AGREE to blah-blah-blah ($X)

If you agree to $X but then don't do it: you're a liar.

The terms might be shit. But if you agree to shit terms you should be bound by shit terms. In the olden days: "I gave my word as a gentleman and a scholar" or "a deals a deal, even with a dirty dealer"[0].

Going back on a deal is not ethical; end of.

[0] I think it from Futurama.

	▲	lelandbatey 5 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Nah: going back on a somewhat ethical and REMOTELY fair deal made by folks who are even close to equal in power, that's not OK. Also, most of these sites make no requirement that you read and agree to anything; I can open YouTube and watch videos in an incognito tab right now, no EULA/TOS necessary, so how are you to say I am breaking any agreement at all? Furthermore, these "use the service or not" agreements is like saying "accept a government or leave the country". Being handed an ultimatum saying "agree or you can't participate with your peers culturally, and potentially can't even access other local services such as government announcements", that's basically not a deal as there is no negotiation, that's being informed by greater powers of the pound of flesh they expect to extract. Yes, yes I know the law says if you don't agree then you should simply not use the Internet, simple as that. That's clearly not even a possibility to be a functioning member of society at this point, but I guess it'll take some time for the law to catch up.
	▲	prmoustache 5 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		> Typically they start with something like: by using this $SERVICE you AGREE to blah-blah-blah ($X) > > If you agree to $X but then don't do it: you're a liar. You have never been presented any TOS nor agreed to anything if you don't have an account. If artists and youtube don't want us to use their 1 and 0 the way we want, they can pretty easily lock them under registration and payment. The thing is they don't care to do that, so they cannot complain.
	▲	flkenosad 5 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> If you agree to $X but then don't do it: you're a liar. No, you're unreliable.