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▲ johnisgood 6 days ago

And here I thought this was a one time thing (someone said he may have had a bad day). :|

Do you have any specifics?

▲jibal 6 days ago | parent [-]

First, I want to be clear that Ginger Bill has put in the work and stands behind his convictions. But convictions he does have, and being strongly and forcefully opinionated has consequences. Here's a summary from Gemini ... which really isn't objectionable at all. If you want specific examples of him getting into arguments with people or being dismissive, you'll have to dig for them yourself.

"Ginger Bill" refers to Bill Hall, the creator of the Odin programming language, who is known for his outspoken and opinionated comments on programming and software development. His argumentative style can be seen in his blog posts and social media, particularly on X (formerly Twitter), where he often presents strong opinions on programming aesthetics, language design, and the open-source software movement.

Examples of his argumentative style

Software is not traditional property: In a blog post titled "Unstructured Thoughts on the Problems of OSS/FOSS," Hall argues that intellectual property, specifically software, is not "property" in the traditional sense because it is "trivially copyable". This is a provocative stance that challenges common views on intellectual property rights.

Criticism of open-source ideals: In the same article, he asserts that the open-source software (OSS/FOSS) dream is just a "dream that cannot live up to its 'ideals'". He argues that many of the perceived benefits of OSS are merely hypotheses and that the movement is based on "blind-faith".

Aesthetics in programming: Hall has made seemingly non-negotiable declarations about coding style. On X, he once posted, "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint". While humorous, it exemplifies his tendency to make definitive statements on subjects that are often matters of convention.

Language semantics over syntax: He argues that the focus of language design should be on core semantics rather than "syntactic sugar". He believes that when the core semantics are good, the syntax will naturally follow and feel "joyful" to use.

Arguments against common practices: Hall is also known for taking firm positions against widely used programming practices, such as his blog post "Exceptions—And Why Odin Will Never Have Them". Overall, his argumentative nature stems from a deep-seated philosophical position on software design and engineering, which he shares to provoke discussion and advocate for the principles he believes are best for the craft.

▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

I have read the post about exceptions: https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2018/09/05/exceptions-and....

I did not personally mind Odin's exceptions, to be honest. I prefer Odin's way, and Go's way, too.

> you'll have to dig for them yourself.

Yeah I was referring to such specifics, but I will take a look at Discord perhaps.

> "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint"

Those are just opinions. I prefer 2 spaces, or tab with 2 column width. I tend stick to one style in my codebase, consistently. I do not like anything longer than 2, because I have a small screen and I think it is just simply redundant. I can follow 2 column width indentation just fine. This is just my opinion. If I use tabs, people can choose their own, it is up to them.

▲krig 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Dude, I find it utterly offensive that you and the other guy keep referring to all these interactions with Bill where he was a mean boy, and yet the closest to an actual quote or reference is some Gemini slop? If you're going to be that lazy, it would be easier to not post anything at all.

https://anthonymoser.github.io/writing/ai/haterdom/2025/08/2...

▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent [-]

So you feel offended on behalf of someone else?

I found the comment(s):

[REDACTED]

> I am closing this PR because it would be quicker for me to write my own bindings than explain everything wrong with it and then hope they get fixed correctly.

The funny thing is that we are talking about a vendor library, one that does actually work (I tested it as I needed curl in Odin)! Seems like the major issues were purely stylistic.

BTW "Please try to keep the original naming conventions and DO NOT change it to Odin's core convention." and "Maybe remove the CURL prefix?" are contradictory.

It is "CURLOPT" in curl.h. "OPT" seems out of place. I am not even sure what I would have named it were I to follow his advice. You?

▲krig 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Is that really the whole reason for this grudge? He gave you a bunch of comments to work from! I was expecting a lot less from your description.

I don't find it too hard to figure out what he meant - he doesn't want to you change the case style of procedure calls, but he _does_ want you to remove redundant namespacing as in the CURL prefix.

Maybe you could have looked at some other vendored libraries to see how they handled things like constant naming and other formatting?

▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent [-]

I posted the link and now the PR is getting filled with comments. Lord. This is why I did not want to look for and post the link to begin with!

Some guy did ask questions I would have asked, at least.

Back to the CURL prefix, what is wrong with it? It is how it is in curl.h and without it, it looks kind of meh. What would the "CURL" distinct type be without the CURL prefix? :P

I hope I did not make a mess just by posting the URL. I will remove it. I do not need more (supposedly trolls) in there and make more of a big fuss than I did on here.

▲thegeekpirate 6 days ago | parent [-]

> Back to the CURL prefix, what is wrong with it?

It prevents stuttering when using it `curl.CURL_*`.

> What would the "CURL" distinct type be without the CURL prefix?

`CURL` isn't a prefix there.

Take more time to think things through.

▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent [-]

I did, thank you. Please explain why would anyone (end user of library) ever want "curl.CURL_GLOBAL_ALL", for example? If anything, it should be private. If you really want to go there, sure. I think it is YOU who should think things through. I get that you are filled with hatred, but come on man. Think. Why would anyone want to call "curl.CURL_GLOBAL_ALL" from a binding which is supposed to be used as a high-level curl library? If it is possible (I have no idea) to make it private, then it should be made private. It is not intended to be used by the users of the library, is it? The higher level functions are the ones supposed to be used by them, and they seem to be named correctly from a quick glance.

If you reply, do so without ad hominems and with some respect. Thank you.

▲thegeekpirate 6 days ago | parent [-]

Last question I'll answer, because you aren't doing any of this is good faith.

You mean `curl.GLOBAL_ALL`, and it's for https://curl.se/libcurl/c/curl_global_init.html

▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent [-]

  // CURL_GLOBAL_ALL combines all initialization flags.
  CURL_GLOBAL_ALL: i64 = 3
It has nothing to do with "curl_global_init()". This - which is a high-level function intended to be called by the users of the library - has:

  init :: proc() -> (ok: bool) {
    return curl_global_init(CURL_GLOBAL_ALL) == 0
  }
As you can see, higher-level function calls low-level function. The higher-level function does not have "curl" as the prefix.

My question still stands and has not been answered.

▲jibal 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> So you feel offended on behalf of someone else?

It's called trolling. He hasn't made a single productive comment.

▲krig 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

I used the word "childish" to describe posting comments about someones personality without any references or examples, and here you are doing the same but adding Gemini to the mix... and I'm the troll? :)

▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I do not disagree.

▲krig 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm offended by the Gemini slop!

▲ 6 days ago | parent | next [-]
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▲johnisgood 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So there is me, jibal, who else is a troll according to you? And who is the one trying to restrict knowledge just because of trolls? I saw the questions on GitHub. They make sense and I am sure people would like to hear the answer. I know I do. Perhaps the PR guy does, too, Lord knows. I think it is unfair to everyone just because of your allegations, and kind of confirms the things that have been said, but the scope extends. Unfortunately.

▲krig 6 days ago | parent [-]

What in the world... jibal was the one who called _me_ a troll, I never called anyone a troll. Lord knows what is happening in this comment section at this point.

▲johnisgood 5 days ago | parent [-]

I lost the plot, too, both on here and on GitHub. The PR got locked, too. This was not my intention, I hope it will not affect anyone, I kind of feel bad for the PR guy now. sighs. He has no idea about this mess.

▲ 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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