> The creation of wealth comes from trade, [...]

I'm not sure to what extent you meant this, but I don't know that I'd agree with it. Trade allows specialization which does increase wealth massively, no doubt. And because of how useful specialization is, all wealth creation involves trade somewhere. But specialization is just one component of wealth creation. It stands alongside labor, innovation, and probably others.

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lelanthran 2 days ago | parent [-]

>> > The creation of wealth comes from trade, [...]

> I'm not sure to what extent you meant this, but I don't know that I'd agree with it.

At a very foundational level, all wealth comes from trade, even when there is no currency involved.

When two parties voluntarily make a trade, each party gets more value out of the trade than they had before, so the sum total of value after the trade is, by definition alone, greater than the sum total of value before the trade.

Small example: I offer to trade you a bag of potatoes for 2 hours of your time to fix my tractor, and you accept.

This trade only happens because:

1. I value a running tractor more than I value my bag of potatoes

2. You value a bag of potatoes more than you value 2 hours of your time.

After the trade is done, I have more value (running tractor) and you have more value (a bag of potatoes), hence the total value after the trade is more than the total value before the trade.

The only thing that creates value is trade. It's the source of value.

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zestyping 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Wow, that's a massive blind spot you've got there.

The value comes from doing the thing. Fixing the tractor creates value. Growing and harvesting the potatoes creates value.

Trading the potatoes for something you value more, yes, also creates additional value. But notice that potatoes have value to you even if you don't trade them for anything.

If you choke on a grape and a helpful volunteer saves your life, they create value. Nothing was exchanged, but they sure as hell generated wealth right there.

Labour and voluntary trade both create value. I wonder what sort of mindset one must have to forget that labour exists.

	▲	lelanthran 35 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> The value comes from doing the thing. Fixing the tractor creates value. Growing and harvesting the potatoes creates value. The value from value doesn't come by default; it's not a given. Neither of those things create value unless they are actually used. Fixing a tractor you neither use nor trade does not create value. Growing potatoes you will never eat does not create value. So, sure, labour can create value, but it's not a guarantee. Trade, OTOH, always creates value.

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utyop22 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ultimately real wealth is all about enhancing the well-being of individuals in society by way of an exchange of assets.

All we have done is become more elaborate and sophisticated in this stuff but at the core, its been the same throughout much of time.

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elbear 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There are people who trade at a deficit just because they believe that's the only viable option. They see commerce as a zero-sum game.

	▲	lelanthran 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		> There are people who trade at a deficit just because they believe that's the only viable option. It's not a deficit if the value they assign to what they get is higher than the value they assign to what they give. If they are giving away something they value highly for something they value less highly, then it's not a voluntary trade, now is it?