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inetknght 6 days ago

Overall, this is a fantastic dive into some of RISC-V's architecture and how to use it. But I do have some comments:

> However, in Chata's case, it needs to access a RISC-V assembler from within its C++ code. The alternative is to use some ugly C function like system() to run external software as if it were a human or script running a command in a terminal.

Have you tried LLVM's C++ API [0]?

To be fair, I do think there's merit in writing your own assembler with your own API. But you don't necessarily have to.

I'm not likely to go back to assembly unless my employer needs that extra level of optimization. But if/when I do, and the target platform is RISC-V, then I'll definitely consider Ultraseembler.

> It's not clear when exactly exceptions are slow. I had to do some research here.

There are plenty of cppcon presentations [1] about exceptions, performance, caveats, blah blah. There's also other C++ conferences that have similar presentations (or even, almost identical presentations because the presenters go to multiple conferences), though I don't have a link handy because I pretty much only attend cppcon.

[0]: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10675661/what-exactly-is...

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cppcon+exceptio...

netr0ute 6 days ago | parent [-]

> LLVM's C++ API

I think I read something about this but couldn't figure out how to use it because the documentation is horrible. So, I found it easier to implement my own, and as it turns out, there are a few HORRIBLE bugs in the LLVM assembler (from cross reference testing) probably because nobody is using the C++ API.

> There are plenty of cppcon presentations [1] about exceptions, performance, caveats, blah blah.

I don't have enough time to watch these kinds of presentations.

mpyne 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

A specific presentation I'd point to is Khalil Estell's presentation on reducing exception code size on embedded platforms at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2FlayomlE

But honestly you'd get vast majority of the benefit just by skimming through the slides at https://github.com/CppCon/CppCon2024/blob/main/Presentations...

With a couple of symbols you define yourself a lot of the associated g++ code size is sharply reduced while still allowing exceptions to work. (Slide 60 on)

0x98 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I think I read something about this but couldn't figure out how to use it because the documentation is horrible.

Fair enough.

> So, I found it easier to implement my own, and as it turns out, there are a few HORRIBLE bugs in the LLVM assembler (from cross reference testing)

Interesting claim, do you have any examples?

inetknght 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> I don't have enough time to watch these kinds of presentations.

Then let me pick and share some of my favorites that I found enlightening, and summarize with some information that I found useful.

By far, the most useful one is Khalil Estell's presentation last year [0]. It's a fairly face paced but relatively deep dive into exception mechanics. At the end, he advocates for a new tool that would audit a program to determine what exceptions could be thrown. I think that's a flipping fantastic idea for a tool. Unfortunately I haven't seen any progress toward it -- if someone here knows where his tool is, or a similar tool, please reply! I did send him an email a few months ago inquiring about it, but haven't received a reply. Nonetheless, the whole presentation was excellent in my opinion. I did see that he had another related presentation at ACCU this year [4] with a topic of "C++ Exceptions are Code Compression" (which I totally can believe -- I've seen it myself in binary sizes), but I haven't seen his presentation yet. I'll watch it later today.

Just about anything from Herb Sutter is good. I don't like that he works for Microsoft, but he does great stuff for C++, including the old Guru of the Week series [1]. In particular, his 2019 presentation [2] describes different error handling techniques, some difficulties and pitfalls in combining libraries with different error handling techniques, and leads up to explaining why std::expected came about. He does pontificate a lot though, so the presentation is fairly high level and slow paced.

Dave Watson's 2017 presentation [3] dives into a few different implementations of stack unwinding. It's good to understand how different compilers implement exceptions with low- or zero-cost overhead and what that "overhead" is really measuring.

So, there's about a half of a day of presentations to watch here. I hope that's not too much for you.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2FlayomlE

[1]: https://herbsutter.com/gotw/

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARYP83yNAWk

[3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ivd3qzgT7U

[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LorcxyJ9zr4

inetknght 5 days ago | parent [-]

Update: it looks like link [4] is just a rehash of his talk from last year's cppcon [0].

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2FlayomlE

[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LorcxyJ9zr4