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WillPostForFood 3 days ago

Prasad is not in any way a conservative, he is a bay area liberal.

rcpt 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

+ He's still talking about masking in 2025.

+ He wrote articles comparing the US COVID response 1940s Germany.

+ He wants to defund mRNA research.

I don't know man. Given that he's a doctor and all his publicly stated views lie right in the middle of maga it's hard to call him a liberal. Is there something about taxes or something that leads you to believe he's actually a Democrat?

hackingonempty 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

+ He's still talking about masking in 2025.

He is saying that's because another pandemic is coming and there still isn't good evidence that masking reduces the spread of respiratory virus. There are a number of observational studies that show an effect which disappears when you consider only high quality RCTs.[0] Maybe now that Prasad has influence the USA will conduct some good research on the topic and we can get a definitive answer, which will be very useful when the next pandemic lands.

Despite that, it is a shame that Prasad has in other respects gone off the deep end as partially described in TFA.

[0] https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...

anthem2025 2 days ago | parent [-]

More likely they continue with the policies that just destroyed the CDC. More likely they continue to go forward with policy based on petty grievances because they are fascist morons who want to see people die.

timr 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"If he doesn't believe exactly what I believe then he's not a True Scotsman."

I'm not going to scan every word the man has ever said or written to defend against the assertions you're just throwing out there without proof, but "talking about masking" is not a thought crime, and talking critically about our reaction to Covid is something that should be within the scope of reasonable conversation on the left.

Also, no, he doesn't want to defund mRNA research. You're talking about Kennedy.

rcpt 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Alright you don't have to "scan every word" but at least read a little bit about the guy

https://www.drvinayprasad.com/p/yes-mrna-vaccine-science-sho...

timr 2 days ago | parent [-]

Did you read it? It doesn't say what you think it says.

To wit: he says that the mRNA cancer vaccines are a scientific dead end, that the existing mRNA vaccines' research can be funded by industry, there are good alternatives, and that the technology has been tainted in the public mind. Therefore he supports de-prioritizing the public research.

None of these arguments can be characterized as "wants to defund mRNA research". As someone who largely agrees with all of those points, if you came to me tomorrow and said "here's a promising new application for mRNA technology that industry won't support", then I'd consider funding it.

I'm so sick of people treating nuanced arguments like bingo cards.

ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> To wit: he says that the mRNA cancer vaccines are a scientific dead end, that the existing mRNA vaccines' research can be funded by industry, there are good alternatives, and that the technology has been tainted in the public mind. Therefore he supports de-prioritizing the research.

> None of these arguments can be characterized as "wants to defund mRNA research".

If I said "paying our mortgage is a dead-end, someone else can fund it, there are good alternatives to paying it, and therefore I'm de-prioritizing paying it"…

Would "I'm defunding our mortgage" be a substantially accurate summary of my position? (Yes.)

timr 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Defunding == "taking all the money away".

Deprioritizing == "giving priority to something else".

It isn't hard to be nuanced. Particularly in this case, when you realize that the manufacturers of the mRNA Covid vaccines have made literally billions of dollars with which to do research.

ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-]

> It isn't hard to be nuanced.

It takes a lot of effort to find that much nuance.

The nuanced description for your position is "a pretty huge stretch".

timr 2 days ago | parent [-]

It's literally the definitions of the words.

ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-]

Look who's suddenly struggling with nuance now.

Deprioritizing something enough becomes defunding pretty fast.

Like that five year old JIRA ticket that no one bothers with.

timr 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Deprioritizing something enough becomes defunding pretty fast.

And right there, you acknowledge the difference. Have a nice day.

ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-]

> And right there, you acknowledge the difference.

"I'm not murdering you, I'm just doing a very, very large blood draw!"

Do you find people fall for this often?

2 days ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
notahacker 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Also, regardless of whether his other arguments are neutral and technical in between swipes at Biden policy, I don't think a "Bay Area liberal" opens his argument with the suggestion that NIH funding policies should be heavily influenced by the possibility certain classes of treatment might be refused by conservatives sufficiently susceptible to conspiratorial arguments against them...

anthem2025 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I’d characterize it as someone who wants to defund mRNA research, because that’s literally what you said he wants to do.

But I’m not a fascist trying to justify the total destruction of the CDC anti-vaxxer dipshits.

const_cast 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh, here's comes the "repeating what Republicans say right back to their face is literally 1984!!1!" people...

anigbrowl 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Why didn't you apply this level of analysis to the parent claim (without evidence) that 'Prasad is a bay area liberal' as if everyone in the bay area had the same political views?

You're very pedantic and argumentative on multiple threads, but your pedantry only seems to run in one direction.

timr 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Why didn't you apply this level of analysis to the parent claim (without evidence) that 'Prasad is a bay area liberal'

I posted evidence: there was a Wall-Street Journal editorial calling Prasad a liberal. He was attacked by the right for being a leftist. It's all extremely well-documented. It just wasn't enough of an ideological purity test for you, I suppose. I'm sorry that I can't post a binary dump of the man's brain.

(I've also personally listened to dozens of hours of the podcasts, so I know very well where he stands. You're more than welcome to do the same, since it's all out there -- don't take my word for it.)

> as if everyone in the bay area had the same political views? You're very pedantic and argumentative on multiple threads, but your pedantry only seems to run in one direction.

That's the weirdest way of saying "you defend your argument" that I think I've ever seen. Thanks?

anigbrowl a day ago | parent [-]

I posted evidence: there was a Wall-Street Journal editorial calling Prasad a liberal

That answer doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because I was asking you about a reaction to someone else's claim.

That's the weirdest way of saying "you defend your argument" that I think I've ever seen. Thanks?

It's not a compliment. Axe-grinding doesn't make for good discussion, and you seem far more reliant on rhetoric than would be needed if you just explained your point of view up front. It's getting into sealioning territory.

UncleMeat 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If the key output of a political figure is to promote policies with conservative valence, what's the difference? Maybe at home he thinks to himself "progressive taxation systems are great" and "subsidizing solar energy is good." Good for him if true. But the thing I care about is how people like him impact society and his impact is to promote weird antivax shit that has completely smitten the reactionary right.

2 days ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
timr 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In fact, it's why he was (temporarily) booted from the FDA -- the article didn't deign to mention the reason, though it definitely mentioned the outcome.

Prasad was specifically attacked by Laura Loomer for being a "leftist", and resigned rather than cause trouble. Deeply ironic that the Guardian is now trying to attack from the left.

UncleMeat 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Laura Loomer is an outright fascist who thinks that we should kill 50 million+ hispanic people in the US. Yes, fascists will often refer to people who aren't quite as murderous as they are as leftists.

You'll have to excuse me for not caring what a person who explicitly wants me dead thinks about political labels.

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why is it deeply ironic? Prasad is being called out for holding highly unscientific views that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

This similar to what Fauci and others were blamed for in early days of COVID: The confusing and dishonest message about masking.

Why should Prasad be held to a different standard?

At least with Fauci and his people, the intent was quite good.

timr 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Prasad is being called out for holding highly unscientific views that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

Which views were those, exactly? Remember, Loomer was attacking him for not approving an ineffective drug.

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent [-]

These things are not difficult to find: https://vaxopedia.org/2025/05/08/what-has-vinay-prasad-said-...

Edit: For now.

timr 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

You're quoting this like it's some kind of indictment, but...it isn't controversial. There's nothing there that's surprising, and it's why he was hired into the role. Nobody is trying to memory-hole this.

Prasad is not "anti-vaccine". He's been explicit that he thinks the Covid vaccine was approved for children without sufficient evidence [1]; he thinks that healthy children don't need it, that there's a documented side-effect that may abrogate any positive effect from vaccination [2]; that some of the vaccines on the childhood schedule are excessive [3]; and that ACIP has historically done a very poor job of reviewing vaccines.

You can have legitimate debates over any of these points, but they're not wacko "anti-science" conspiracy theories that remove a person from polite society.

[1] Because it was. It was a joke of an approval, based on extremely weak surrogate endpoints (i.e. antibody titre)

[2] Myocarditis, particularly in boys. This is just a fact.

[3] I actually don't know which ones he thinks are excessive, but you'll note that he says children should get the MMR vaccine.

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Transparency is paramount here. That excludes: Misinformation, lies of omission, and obfuscation.

He chose to make to make public statements, relying on his credentials.

He’s now using copyright to obfuscate his publicly made positions.

If anyone is treating it like an indictment, it’s Prasad and his supporters.

If you’re bringing up myocarditis facts, then don’t omit a key fact: Actual covid increased the chances of myocarditis by seven times the two-dose regiment of the mRNA vaccine: 82% vs 12%.

I do agree a legitimate debate can be had, but not with someone who willfully chooses to cherry-pick their facts.

timr 2 days ago | parent [-]

> If you’re bringing up myocarditis facts, then don’t omit a key fact: Actual covid increased the chances of myocarditis by seven times the two-dose regiment of the mRNA vaccine: 82% vs 12%. I do agree a legitimate debate can be had, but not with someone who willfully chooses to cherry-pick their facts.

Indeed. Cherry-picking stats is bad...particularly when you do it, name specific numbers, and then don't cite your sources so that other people can verify them.

I don't know where you got that number, because the rate of myocarditis from either vaccine or virus is nowhere near that high. But the likely source is that you're mis-remembering a paper that blurred together men, women, adults and children in a statistically invalid mix.

Here's an accurate summary of the current data:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9880674/

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent [-]

That tells me you didn’t look. Meanwhile, your citation is distinctly ignoring what happens when someone actually has covid.

Context matters, and your citation ignores it or wasn’t intended to cover it.

The very definition of cherry picking: Either your choice of citation, or the study itself.

anthem2025 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

kelipso 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

This kind of blind belief in authority is concerning. You should probably examine your biases.

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent [-]

I do see a strong bias, and it’s not the OP.

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I won’t go that far, but as someone who always toes that freedom line: The nonsense have veered from the freedom to “swing one’s fist” to “my nose starts here”.

I’ll never endorse forcing vaccination, but that doesn’t mean I endorse willful misinformation.

Nor should I tolerate loss of access to a modern miracle, because of someone’s horribly misguided beliefs.

anthem2025 2 days ago | parent [-]

These people would willingly expose their child to diseases that cause death or lifelong health problems.

They are not fit parents.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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mvdtnz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I read that vaxopedia link above and I didn't see anything I'd class as "anti-vaccine" viewpoints. He's critical of some particular use cases of the COVID vaccine and he's concerned about developing a culture where healthy young people are getting boosters needlessly. I am not well-informed enough to assess his viewpoints but he's clearly in favour of vaccines, with a handful of reasonable-sounding caveats.

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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NewJazz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Guardian is merely reporting facts. Odd that you perceive that as an attack...

NewJazz 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No evidence for this claim.

WillPostForFood 3 days ago | parent [-]

https://archive.is/BH7Y2

NewJazz 2 days ago | parent [-]

At what point in the article is the man's party affiliation discussed?

WillPostForFood 2 days ago | parent [-]

At one point in the comments did I mention party affiliation?

NewJazz 2 days ago | parent [-]

You used the term SF liberal. That implies democratic party affiliation.

Neither the strings "liberal" or "democr" appear in the article you linked. The word "conservatives" appears once, and it is in the context of the dude aligning himself with conservatives...

bdcravens 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

RFK Jr. also initially ran as a Democrat until he suspended that version of his presidential campaign in October 2023 and ran as an independent.

CamperBob2 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Trump himself was a Democrat from 2001-2009, lest anyone forget[1]. He only resorted to the Republican Party after being rejected by everyone else first.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Donald_...

NewJazz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

He never had a chance for the nomination.

majormajor 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The lines in certain areas have obviously broken down where the far-right has seized and expanded what used to be a loony-lefty-hippie distrust of vaccines. He's being used by conservatives and appears to be following their playbook.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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DrillShopper 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

theoreticalmal 3 days ago | parent [-]

> My brother in Christ, he's bottoming for Trump.

These two clauses cannot possibly both be sincerely held.

majormajor 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Are you suggesting you think Christians couldn't oppose Trump? It's hard for me to see how anyone who's read the words of Jesus (not the words of Paul, or Moses, but of Jesus Christ) could sincerely support Trump.

pstuart 2 days ago | parent [-]

I have a friend who is a devout evangelical (son of a preacher) and seems to be a follower of Christ -- who has voted for Trump every time.

I'm trying to find consensus with him and so far he's revealed that he holds no love for Trump (not even giving the line about him being a flawed vessel but still a gift from God).

He states he votes based on policy (which is an admirable thing in voting) and that he's a single-issue voter (not so admirable). The policy? Immigration. He believes that the Dems intentionally open the flood gates to migrants in order to create more Dem voters.

He cites how Dems have advocated for letting non-citizens vote as proof. And it's true, Dems have advocated for area residents to vote in some local elections in CA and NY.

When I pointed out the nature of those elections, and that Dems are always trying to increase voting participation across the board), as well as the fact that a majority of these new arrivals are effectively religious and conservative, he switches the conversation.

He's for single-payer health care and likely is for other "liberal" ideas, so I continue to try and engage with him on this in a gentle manner. I know that telling somebody to change their beliefs is a fool's errand, but seeds of doubt and providing new information might possibly let him arrive at a new conclusion on his own terms.

mjamesaustin 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

If your friend is a devout evangelical, maybe he'll reconsider his opinion about immigration if you direct him towards what the Bible says about immigrants and foreigners.

https://saintmarks.org/justice/renewing-our-covenant/what-do...

unethical_ban 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Every time a person says they voted to oppose their least favorite party, we should all remember that first-past-the-post voting is the main reason we have a hyper-polarized two party system.

Your friend might have found another party than the Trump party to support tighter immigration and better healthcare policy. Instead, we have millions of people who will vote to destroy democracy rather than vote for someone who supports abortion or permitting trans people to exist.

pstuart 2 days ago | parent [-]

I absolutely agree that the current system is bad (and we were warned by George Washington himself).

Rank based voting is touted as being a better approach but there's some reasonable criticism of it (too lazy to find and share a link).

Add to the list of things that need to change is campaign financing -- it's literally legalized bribery.

All of this change is possible, the problem is that those in power will do everything in their power to preserve their control.

mrkeen 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I grew up with a ranked voting system. It has effectively been a two party system regardless. I don't think people know how it works and just treat it like first past the post.

Proportionate representation seems like it's probably better. I think everyone should skip the intermediate steps and jump straight to approval voting.

unethical_ban 2 days ago | parent [-]

If I really geek out on voting systems, the one I prefer the most is the River method, which is a ranked ballot but fixes some of the issues of Instant Runoff and allows equal ranking of multiple candidates.

Any ranked system has some issues yes. I forget which criteria it fails but they are all better than FPTP.

My issue with unranked approval voting is that IMO very few people have equal preference of lots of candidates. I think that it forces people to express themselves in a way that doesn't reflect their true preference, and that's a bad thing.

Yes, I think multimember districts with proportional representation makes the most sense.

For anyone interested, here is a site to visualize the River (and other) methods. https://votingmethods.net/cond/

unethical_ban a day ago | parent | prev [-]

One quick note: there is a single political party that calls for banning alternatives to FPTP: Republicans. While party insiders at the DNC might not like the idea of diluted power, they haven't tried to ban voting reform. Nor have they vocally opposed campaign finance reform like Republicans.

aerostable_slug 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> effectively religious and conservative

Your friend should have stuck to his guns, because that old saw is masking the truth: new migrants who become eligible to vote, and their birthright citizen children, overwhelmingly and reliably vote Democrat. And why wouldn't they? They perceive Democrats are who let them in and Democrats give them the entitlements they disproportionately depend on.

It is chicanery to pretend otherwise. It's also a brilliant plan and I congratulate the DNC on the long play. It works out great for their donors as well, as immigration tends to drive down labor costs for things like construction and agriculture.

DrillShopper 2 days ago | parent [-]

> the entitlements they disproportionately depend on.

[citation needed]

nobodyandproud 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This keeps falling on deaf or ignorant ears, but it’s a huge mistake to view Trump from a regular Conservative vs Liberal lens.

He’s breaking the system, and I believe many of the WSJ crowd—they were just as caught-off guards asb the liberal circles—will be in for an ugly surprise when it finally sinks it what’s happening.

cosmicgadget 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

He rather loudly demands total fealty from anyone he appoints or hires.

anthem2025 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

gdulli 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

panny 3 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

const_cast 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Except zero Republicans want that.

You're doing that classic thing where you're taking republican views, which are legitimately insane, and trying to rationalize them and make them sound better.

Its okay, the Republicans are actually insane and stupid. Were allowed to call them insane and stupid when they do insane and stupid things. We're allowed to repeat the things they say back.

We don't have to euphamize everything.

gdulli 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It would be easier to believe conservative arguments for "extra testing" were in good faith if another cornerstone of their philosophy wasn't cutting regulation and red tape.

We cut through red tape when we needed to.

jmye 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As if you have the faintest clue how much testing was done, or have the capacity to understand that testing in the first place. These complaints are hollow, transparent bullshit, and they’re always pushed by people who will contort themselves into pretzels to not accept any evidence provided that doesn’t confirm their priors.

majormajor 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Citation needed on your definition of adequate testing, gene therapy products, etc.

The whole right-wing hysteria is so ridiculous especially considering the real profit-seeking-grift that happened with Aduhelm, for instance, was primarily opposed by and investigated by Democrats. Like, we have receipts on who's looking out for things getting approved despite bad test results. And it's not the people currently claiming they are.

timr 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Funny that you mentioned Aduhelm, because Prasad has many, many videos blasting the FDA for approving that mess.

> The whole right-wing hysteria is so ridiculous especially considering the real profit-seeking-grift that happened with Aduhelm, for instance, was primarily opposed by and investigated by Democrats.

This is just revisionist history. Aduhelm was rubber-stamped by Peter Marks' CBER, under Biden:

https://www.statnews.com/2021/06/22/documents-reveal-fda-unp...

(Marks started at the FDA under Obama, BTW.)

Outside reviewers had recommended rejecting the drug as early as November 2020. The FDA's own statisticians agreed.

panny a day ago | parent | prev [-]

>Citation needed

Okay, here is the president of Bayer Pharacutical division calling the covid mRNA a gene therapy, because it is:

https://youtu.be/IKBmVwuv0Qc?t=507

And here is the definition of vaccine being rewritten to include mRNA gene therapies:

https://archive.is/xLu6u

https://archive.is/BQStN

It's only a vaccine if you like redefining words to mean whatever you want them to mean.