That is an interesting point. Co-ops seem like they should out perform from a worker incentive point of view. But, why are co-ops basically non-existent in Big Tech. WinCo, groceries, and REI, expensive outdoor stuff, in the US are both big co-ops but are retailers.

Maybe VC money warps the economics so that every company needs to be winner takes all lotto tickets for the investors. Having it be worker owned gets rid of the extreme ROÍ VCs expect.

If you know any papers on the subject I would be interested though.

▲

dragonwriter 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Co-ops seem like they should out perform from a worker incentive point of view. , why are co-ops basically non-existent in Big Tech. WinCo, groceries, and REI, expensive outdoor stuff, in the US are both big co-ops but are retailers.

REI is a consumer coop, not a labor co-op (and WinCo, while employee-owned through an ESOP, is not a co-op at all.)

Cooperative Home Care Associates, a home health care agency HQ’d in the Bronx, appears to be the largest US labor cooperatives (and labor intensive service industries are probably the most common places to find labor coops in the US.)

> Maybe VC money warps the economics so that every company needs to be winner takes all lotto tickets for the investors. Having it be worker owned gets rid of the extreme ROÍ VCs expect.

Right. VC goals and labor coop goals are almost never aligned, and instead are almost diametrically opposed. Labor coops tend to favor conservative expansion and risk mitigation and stability. VC’s want to swing for the fences on scale—a succesful steady-state business that will pay its founding employees good pay forever but not expand much is a massive failure for VCs, but a win for a labor coop.

▲

alemanek 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Oh thanks for setting me straight on WinCo and REI. I didn’t realize they weren’t labor co-ops. That is what I get for being lazy and not questioning the marketing. Too late for me to edit my post though.

▲

fijiaarone 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does “consumer co-op” mean that you have to buy a plastic card in order to get the corporation money, like Costco?

	▲	dragonwriter 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		No, Costco is a public company that sells annual memberships and then retails to its members at prices that are just about break even not counting the membership fee. The shareholders of the company elect the board of directors who runs the company. REI is owned by people who pay a one-time lifetime membership fee. Those co-op members elect the board fo directors who runs the company.

▲

fijiaarone 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

VCs don’t have ROI. They’re gambling with someone else’s money and taking big fees. ROI implies that there is a return — but they’re already making more than they deserve just for the fee, and they are not investing anything themselves.

▲

wahnfrieden 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

REI is not worker-owned FYI. It's a consumer-owned co-op. Different beast

VCs are not interested in worker-owned coops. Economic climate works against the concept at scale. Workers are also divided on it and are not organized around enabling it. Employers are highly coordinated on maintaining current employer-worker relations.

edit: here is some related reading you might find interesting:

- Sociocracy - consent-based decision-making organizations (as opposed to dreadful unanimous decision-making which doesn't work and is a common criticism of non-hierarchical organizations) https://www.sociocracyforall.org/sociocracy/ // https://sociocracy30.org

- a UK tech co-op network: https://www.coops.tech but it seems a lot of these are more tech services than product companies

▲

alemanek 3 days ago | parent [-]

Thank you for the links and the correction on REI. I wasn’t aware that consumer co-ops were even a thing. I have some reading to do. Too late to edit my parent post unfortunately.

	▲	ghaff 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		There are a lot of retail consumer co-ops, especially in the grocery area. REI is a relatively large example although it's not huge by retail and certainly tech standards.