| ▲ | some_random 4 days ago |
| Title is misleading, they're now opt-out rather than opt-in to your data being used for training. All you have to do is flip a single switch in the options to turn it off, I don't understand why everyone is treating this as being such a big deal. Edit: I just logged in to opt out, they presented me with the switch directly. It was two clicks. |
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| ▲ | drdaeman 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| [Edit: turns out I've got it wrong, and 5-year retention only said to apply to the data they're allowed to train on. This changes things for me.] Personally, I don't mind training, as long as I have a say on the matter - and they have a switch for this. Opt-out is not exactly cool, but I've got the popup in my face, almost a month before the changes, and that's respectful enough for me. This said, I've just canceled my subscription because this new 5-year mandatory data retention is a deal breaker for me. I don't mind 30 or 60 days or even 90 days - I can understand the need to briefly persist the data. But for anything long-term (and 5 years is effectively permanent) I want to be respected with having a choice, and I'm provided none except for "don't use". A shame, but fortunately they're not a monopoly. |
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| ▲ | some_random 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Data retention appears to be predicated on opting in to allowing training. If you don't opt in, they retain it for the same 30 days they were already retaining it for. https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms | | |
| ▲ | drdaeman 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Oh! Thank you! That popup was confusing as hell then, because I've read and understood it as two separate points: I've got it that they're making training opt-out, and that they're changing data retention to 5 years, independent of each other. I got upset over this, and haven't really researched into the nuances - and turns out I've got it all wrong. Appreciate your comment, it's really helpful! I hope they change the language to make it clear 5 years only applies to the chats they're allowed to train models on. (Weirdly, I can't find the word "years" anywhere on their Privacy Policy, and the only instance on the Consumer Terms of Service pages is about being of legal age over 18 years old.) |
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| ▲ | rkomorn 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think any switch from opt-out-by-default to opt-in-by-default sucks, especially when it has no clear immediate benefit to the person being opted in. Disclaimer: not a Claude user (not even a prospective one) |
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| ▲ | latexr 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > any switch from opt-out-by-default to opt-in-by-default sucks It’s the reverse. This was opt-in and is now opt-out. Opt means choose so when “the default is opt-in” it means the option is “no” by default and you have the option to make it “yes”. | | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > they're now opt-out rather than opt-in to your data being used for training This is what the comment I was replying to said. I took that to mean "you have to opt out (ie you're opted in by default)". | | |
| ▲ | stkdump 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The meaning of the term "opt-in" is that it is off by default and has to be manually enabled. "opt-out" means it is on by default and you have to manually turn it off. "opt-in-by-default" or "opted in by default" are needlessly confusing. | | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 4 days ago | parent [-] | | True, yes. Totally agree with you on the fundamental definition of opt-in vs opt-out. You can also have a checkbox that says "I consent to having my data used for training", which would look like "opting in", and it could be true by default. Or you can have a checkbox that says "Leave my data out of your training set", which would look like "opting out", and which could be unchecked default. Technically, they're both "opt-out", but I've seen enough examples (intentionally confusing and arguably "dark patterns") that I personally don't really consider "it's opt-in" to be a complete statement anymore. Edit: I'll add that, in the comment I was replying to, it very much looked like you had to go to a settings page in order to opt-out, which I think is entirely reasonably described as having been opted-in by default. Here's what they had written: > All you have to do is flip a single switch in the options to turn it off And I actually think "opted-in by default" is valid and calls out cases where it looks like you consent, but that decision was made for you. Although in this case I think I've seen other comments that describe the UX differently, but my comment was more of a general comment than about this particular flow. |
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| ▲ | currymj 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | i think skepticism is healthy, but they've handled this in a fairer way than any other online product i've used before. they gave me a popup to agree to the ToS change, but I can ignore it for a month and still use the product. In the popup, they clearly explained the opt-out switch, which is available in the popup itself as well as in the settings. | |
| ▲ | some_random 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think it's good, but people both here and on reddit are acting like this is some Great Betrayal when it's just a single switch that they prominently present to you. If they're going to make this change, this is exactly how I'd want them to do it. | | |
| ▲ | latexr 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > If they're going to make this change Feels like the complaint is precisely that people don’t want them to make this change. > this is exactly how I'd want them to do it. Sees naive to believe it will always be done like this, especially for new users. | | |
| ▲ | some_random 4 days ago | parent [-] | | First off, I don't think going into the settings and flipping a toggle switch once is a huge burden on those who want to use a service privately. But more importantly, some of the comments here are so hysterical I have to assume that they read the title and jumped to the conclusion that you cannot opt out anymore without a business account. |
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| ▲ | robwwilliams 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Odd that you are being down-voted for pointing out the easy opt-out option. I need this opt-in feature. I suppose the polarity of action could be a factor. |
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| ▲ | boredatoms 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| No thats BS, lots of people wont know the default got flipped |
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