You should use people power to work to make Indonesia a more open, democratic society.

Yes, it's hard work. Yes, it will take a long time. Yes, you personally may not get very far with your efforts.

But if Indonesians don't take responsibility for and work to improve Indonesia then the rest of it doesn't matter.

Part of that is knowing whats happening inside the country, of which they were previously using tools like discord, which have now been blocked. So the first step to using people power to make Indonesia a more open, democratic society would be to find a way to tunnel out to get and share that information. To that end the OP has created this Ask HN thread.

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breve 9 days ago | parent [-]

Nope. The outside doesn't matter. The problem is on the inside. External websites will never fix the internal problem.

There are no technical solutions to what is fundamentally a problem of political culture.

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protocolture 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

>External websites will never fix the internal problem.

Except the internal problem is censoring internal information sources. They can only trust external sites to remain neutral.

Not to mention that, politically and historically speaking, there are so many examples of revolutionaries needing to go overseas to organize. The Bolshies literally got started in a London pub.

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breve 9 days ago | parent [-]

Nope. They can simply talk to each other. I talk to people inside Indonesia routinely. I do it via SMS, via the phone, via iMessage, via Microsoft Teams. It's not difficult.

You're not understanding the circumstances on a practical level. All you're doing is running away from the work to solve the fundamental political problem and that avoidance won't solve anything.

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protocolture 8 days ago | parent [-]

>All you're doing is running away from the work

I feel like you have some weird moral hangup with needing/using non local resources that wont be resolved with any application of logic or reference to facts. Its nice that you have formed some weird worldview but its not really reality and it doesnt fit into it, so no need to make it anyone elses problem really.

Edit: Also last time I checked iMessage and Teams are also hosted outside of indonesia.

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breve 8 days ago | parent [-]

I'm saying slacktivism won't get you anywhere. There is no technical solution to cultivating a better political culture.

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protocolture 5 days ago | parent [-]

You are trying to frame someones reasonable activism as slacktivism. And its not framing that passes muster. Its not slacktivism because it happens on Discord instead of Teams.

	▲	breve 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		No. I'm being practical. Here's what direct, in country, in person, actual skin the game has got done: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrk2kxlngo Indonesia and Indonesians must do more of that. Take that responsibility. Get the country under control. Improve the political culture. Get a better standard of democracy. One of the reasons Russia, for example, is out of control is because Russians stopped taking responsibility for their own country. They surrendered to apathy and nihilism. Bit by bit they allowed authoritarianism to take over again. It's going to be hard to get a better political culture back in Russia. It will take a long time.

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degamad 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

How do you propose they coordinate the political activities when they can't use external communications sites/tools, and internal sites are actively monitored by an authoritarian government?

Step 1 is establishing a secure means of communication.