Around 5 is the correct number for a first line manager of a technical team. Go to 10 and it’s impossible to keep track of things. The day has only so many hours. Managing takes time.

For bigger teams (10+) you either need individuals who are very independent and driven, or have dependable line managers.

> Go to 10 and it’s impossible to keep track of things. The day has only so many hours. Managing takes time.

I've actually had better experiences with higher employee:manager ratios for this reason.

When the manager can't possibly be involved in everything they're forced to let go, delegate, and skip the management busywork.

My worst experiences have been at companies with one manager per 2-3 employees and skip-level managers who were expected to be involved as well. It was a never-ending stream of meetings, weekly hour-long 1:1s with multiple people, goal setting, personal development exercises, and a growing list of scheduled distractions.

The managers felt like they needed to make work to justify their managerial roles, so our time got filled with meetings and activities that didn't contribute to anything other than making the manager feel good about doing things they heard about in podcasts and books.

Every time I see manager with 5 people I know it will be daily 30m standups, friday “summary” meeting, weekly 1:1 and other nok work related activities. If team of 5 people need a babysitter fulltime it means there are no adults on that group.

Around 5 is when the manager typically creates extra unnecessary work for everyone to justify his/her existence

> For bigger teams (10+) you either need individuals who are very independent and driven, or have dependable line managers.

that described internal Apple hardware teams i was on for years, as having as flat as possible an org was a priority to prevent bureaucracy and fiefdom forming middle manager nonsense

That's been the mantra in the tech world for at least a decade now, and I've grown to really disagree. Managers should have 10 at minimum. Most should have 15-20. They should specialize in being a manager and shouldn't be solving problems except pure management problems. (Good) teachers easily manage classrooms of 10-30 kids, even in private schools. The low direct report count ends up creating managers that have too much power, too much say, and too much time to mess around.

I've never directly reported to someone who had that few people reporting to them. Team sizes of ~5 work well but managers can have multiple teams. They don't need to be involved with most people on a day to day basis.