How many more cycles do you think you will need to realize it is both sides, in fact it is above both sides?

Do you think it will finally click after 2 more cycles, that's 8 years or so?

You will be your current age + 8, maybe you can then start saying "yeah man both sides suck, it is as if there is something above it that controls them both and we are made to support them as if we're supporting our favorite soccer team"?

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abakker 2 days ago | parent [-]

I'm no apologist for bad policy or lack of rigor on the side of the democrats, but the "Both sides" argument is tired and not particularly persuasive. What the Trump administration is doing is objectively unprecedented, and the republican complicity in a degradation of the separation of powers is not something that has been attempted by "Both sides". Trump certainly has raised the bar on presidential power, but in context, republicans under Bush and through Obama's term have set a standard of the erosion of important balances to power.

In regards to my ability to "realize" I suppose I'll keep myself to the facts. At present, I don't see a set of functional equivalency in each party's extravagances.

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therein 2 days ago | parent [-]

It is not an argument I am making. It is just the reality of the situation. Not even going to try to convince you, data in front of you over years should be sufficient but people forgive, forget, adapt, justify, try to move on with their lives, misremember, look at the most recent argument they are presented etc.

It is that they create problems, they pitch suboptimal solutions that will create the next crisis, and then they frame the crisis in a way that appeals to your emotions.

So no, it is not a tiresome both sides argument. It is that you are being led by people that don't care about you, that don't have your best interests in mind; they have their own agenda and you're just being swayed left and right as the zeitgeist allows.

And you're left cheering for your team because you think your team is better. But hey, the other team really bothched something up recently, so yay your team. And then we will get your team in power, they'll do some things you like while creating other problems and then pendulum will swing the other way, some will cheer for the other team and then swing back. And then before you know it, oops you're 64 years old now.

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abakker 2 days ago | parent [-]

I see what you're saying here, and I guess I missed that point in the earlier post. Sorry.

You are definitely right that the parties/political system does not make decisions in my favor (or really make decisions at all). Beyond just the crises, it's pretty clear that the "vested interests" in our economy have substantial sway in the outcomes regardless of how much of the discourse they try to avoid.

to be clear, I'm not in favor of the expansion of the executive power through executive orders under Obama, nor am I in favor of Trump using it. I think the democrats were short sighted in allowing the precedent and not expecting it to backfire. IMO, democracy is strongest when the motivation is to close loopholes as an exercise in disarmament, rather than the pyrrhic victories of escalation.

All that said, the recent escalations are alarming, and I hope that when I'm 64, the pendulum is still attached to swing. I understand the realpolitik of the situation, but I don't agree that I need to adopt such a fatalistic view of the whole situation that I won't care that people are making mistakes at all.

	▲	therein 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah, we seem to be in agreement. And you're right, the pendulum swinging is upsetting but it will be even more concerning when it stops to swing.