I’ve been thinking a lot about getting something from Framework, as I like their ethos around relatability. However, I currently have an M1 Pro which works just fine, so I’ve been kicking the can down the road while worrying that it just won’t be up to par in terms of what I’m used to from Apple. Not just the processor, but everything. Even in the Intel Mac days, I ended up buying a Asus Zephyrus G14, which had nothing but glowing reviews from everyone. I hated it and sold it within 6 months. There is a level of polish that I haven’t seen on any x86 laptop, which makes it really hard for me to venture outside of Apple’s sandbox.

I recently upgraded from an M1 mac book pro 15", which I was pretty happy with, to the M4 max pro 16". I've been extremely impressed with the new laptop. The key metric I use to judge performance is build speed for our main project. It's a thing I do a few dozen times per day. The M1 took about four minutes to run our integration tests. I should add that those tests run in parallel and make heavy use of docker. There are close to 300 integration tests and a few unit tests. Each of those hit the database, Redis, and Elasticsearch. The M4 Pro dropped that to 40 seconds. Each individual test might take a few seconds. It seems to be benefiting a lot from both the faster CPU with lots of cores and the increased amount of memory and memory bandwidth. Whatever it is, I'm seriously impressed with this machine. It costs a lot new but on a three year lease, it boils down to about 100 euros per month. Totally worth it for me. And I'm kind of kicking myself for not upgrading earlier.

Before the M1, I was stuck using an intel core i5 running arch linux. My intel mac managed to die months before the M1 came out. Let's just say that the M1 really made me appreciate how stupidly slow that intel hardware is. I was losing lots of time doing builds. The laptop would be unusable during those builds.

Life is too short for crappy hardware. From a software point of view, I could live with Linux but not with Windows. But the hardware is a show stopper currently. I need something that runs cool and yet does not compromise on performance. And all the rest (non-crappy trackpad, amazingly good screen, cool to the touch, good battery life, etc.). And manages to look good too. I'm not aware of any windows/linux laptop that does not heavily compromise on at least a few of those things. I'm pretty sure I can get a fast laptop. But it'd be hot and loud and have the unusable synaptics trackpad. And a mediocre screen. Etc. In short, I'd be missing my mac.

Apple is showing some confidence by just designing a laptop that isn't even close to being cheap. This thing was well over 4K euros. Worth every penny. There aren't a lot of intel/amd laptops in that price class. Too much penny pinching happening in that world. People think nothing of buying a really expensive car to commute to work. But they'll cut on the thing that they use the whole day when they get there. That makes no sense whatsoever in my view.

> There is a level of polish

Yeah, those glossy mirror-like displays in which you see yourself much better than the displayed content are polished really well

> "There is a level of polish that I haven’t seen on any x86 laptop, which makes it really hard for me to venture outside of Apple’s sandbox."

Hah, it's exactly the other way around for me; I can't stand Apple's hardware. But then again I never bought anything Asus... let alone gamer laptops.

Most manufacturers just don't give a shit. Had the exact same experience with a well-reviewed Acer laptop a while back, ended up getting rid of it a few months in because of constant annoyances, replaced with a MacBook Air that lasted for many years. A few years back, I got one of the popular Asus NUCs that came without networking drivers installed. I'm guessing those were on the CD that came with it, but not particularly helpful on a PC without a CD drive. The same SKU came with a variety of networking hardware from different manufacturers, without any indication of which combination I had, so trial and error it was. Zero chance non-techy people would get either working on their own.

I had a 2020 Zephyrus G14 - also bought it largely because of the reviews.

First two years it was solid, but then weird stuff started happening like the integrated GPU running full throttle at all times and sleep mode meaning "high temperature and fans spinning to do exactly nothing" (that seems to be a Windows problem because my work machine does the same).

Meanwhile the manufacturer, having released a new model, lost interest, so no firmware updates to address those issues.

I currently have the Framework 16 and I'm happy with it, but I wouldn't recommend it by default.

I for one bought it because I tend to damage stuff like screens and ports and it also enables me to have unusual arrangements like a left-handed numpad - not exactly mainstream requirements.

I suspect the majority of people who recommend particular x86 laptops have only had x86 laptops. There’s a lot of disparity in quality between brands and models.

Apple is just off the side somewhere else.