| ▲ | ofjcihen 8 days ago |
| As a security professional who makes most of my money from helping companies recover from vibe coded tragedies this puts Looney Toons style dollar signs in my eyes. Please continue. |
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| ▲ | torginus 7 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Since the entire concept of Vibe Coding existed for a grand total of 5 months, how do companies reach the level of saturation with vibe coding, that it's not only prevalent, but makes sense to specialize in helping them recover from it? |
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| ▲ | thyristan 7 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It only takes one tiny vibe-coded insecure extension to a pre-existing codebase (that might have been good secure code), to turn the whole thing into a catastrophe. It's basically the same as in other parts of IT security: It only takes one lost root password, one exploited software/device/oversight, one slip, to let an attacker in (yes, defense-in-depth architecture might help, but nonetheless, every long exploit-chain starts with the first tiny crack in the armor). | |
| ▲ | ofjcihen 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My guess is tons of small/medium sized companies were enamored with the speed and ease of use that LLMs promised and very quickly found solutions that “just worked”. Also we don’t really specialize in it since that’s not something you would really do. It’s just that the usual vulnerabilities are more common AND compounded. | |
| ▲ | hirako2000 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | on the other juicing side, starting to see service companies like these popping up:
https://perfect.codes/ | | |
| ▲ | torginus 7 days ago | parent [-] | | I shudder at the thought of some novice vibe coder giving me thousands of lines of AI-generated flaming poop, and insist that it's almost correct, I just need to fix it here and there. |
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| ▲ | ath3nd 7 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | AI slop don't sleep, AI slop don't stop. It's just garbage garbage garbage churned out constantly, everywhere, by everyone. The profession of the future is a garbage man. |
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| ▲ | discordance 8 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Would love to hear more about your work and how you have tapped into that market if you're keen to share. Even if it's just anecdotes about vibe-in-production gone wrong, that would be really entertaining. |
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| ▲ | ofjcihen 8 days ago | parent [-] | | Absolutely. Before vibe coding became too much of a thing we had the majority of our business coming from poorly developed web applications coming from off shore shops. That’s been more or less the last decade. Once LLMs became popular we started to see more business on that front which you would expect. What we didn’t expect is that we started seeing MUCH more “deep” work wherein the threat actor will get into core systems from web apps. You used to not see this that much because core apps were designed/developed/managed by more knowledgeable people. The integrations were more secure. Now though? Those integrations are being vibe coded and are based on the material you’d find on tutorials/stack etc which almost always come with a “THIS IS JUST FOR DEMONSTRATION DONT USE THIS” warning. We also see a ton of re-compromised environments. Why? They don’t know how to use CICD and just recommit the vulnerable code. Oh yeah, before I forget, LLMs favor the same default passwords a lot. We have a list of the ones we’ve seen (will post eventually) but just be aware that that’s something threat actors have picked up on too. EDIT: Another thing, when we talk to the guys responsible for the integrations or whatever was compromised a lot of the time we hear the excuse “we made sure to ask the LLM if it was secure and it said yes”. I don’t know if they would have caught the issue before but I feel like there’s a bit of false comfort where they feel like they don’t have to check themselves. | | |
| ▲ | danpalmer 7 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > We also see a ton of re-compromised environments. Why? They don’t know how to use CICD and just recommit the vulnerable code. This one sticks out to me. A while back the UK did a security assessment of Huawei with a view to them being a core infrastructure provider for the 5G rollout, and the conclusion wasn't that they were insecure, it was that they were ~10 years away from being able to even claim they were secure. Contrasting this to my current employer, where the software supply chain and provenance is exceptional, it's clear to me that vibe coding doesn't get you far in terms of that supply chain, and is arguably a significant regression from the norm. Third party dependencies, runtime environments/containers, build processes, build environments, dev machines, source control, configuration, binaries, artifact signing and provenance, IDEs, none of these have good answers in the vibe-coded ecosystem and many are harmed by it. It will be interesting to see how the industry grapples with this when someone eventually pushes back and says they won't use your software because you don't have enough context about it to even claim it's secure. | |
| ▲ | ofjcihen 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | OH MAN I almost forgot. We’ve had a few of these stem from custom LLM agents. The most hilarious one we’ve seen was one that you could get to print its instructions pretty easily. In the instructions was a bit about “DON’T TALK ABOUT FILES LABELED X”. No guardrails other than that. A little creative prompting got it to dump all files labeled X. | |
| ▲ | poniko 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is the best thread response I've seen in a while, made me chuckle because i can't understand how people say they vibe code stuff and it works (My experience is not that) and i just feel out of the loop reading all other HN posts and comments about how good it is. | |
| ▲ | Isharmla 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > We have a list of the ones we’ve seen (will post eventually) I'd like to see if LLM use pw like 123456 | |
| ▲ | 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | mring33621 7 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | please mention your company if you have been doing this for some years, i'm gonna guess that you're good at it and that there are plenty of potential customers here that could use your help | | |
| ▲ | ofjcihen 7 days ago | parent [-] | | I’d love to but unfortunately I can be pretty inflammatory online and I’d like to continue using this account for personal opinions =] |
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| ▲ | phito 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Are LLMs better or worse at security than a team full of fresh graduates? |
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| ▲ | ofjcihen 7 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Hard to say for a number of reasons but I can tell you what kind of teams we see. College grads with no seniors or too few senior devs to oversee them tend to be the worst. Surprisingly, it seems that the worst of these is where the team is very enthusiastic about tech in general. I’ve wondered if it’s a desire to be the next Zuckerberg or maybe not having the massive failure everyone has eventually that makes you realize you aren’t bullet proof. Experienced devs with too much work to do are common. Genuinely feel bad for these guys. Off shore shops seem to now ship worse crap faster. Not only that but when one app has an issue you can usually assume they all have the same issue. Also as a side note Tech focused companies are the most common followed by B2C companies. Manufacturing etc. are really rare for us to see and I think that may be something to do with reticence to adopt new patterns or tech. | |
| ▲ | ath3nd 7 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Far far far far worse. | | |
| ▲ | phito 7 days ago | parent [-] | | In my experience, LLMs do not make a lot of the security mistakes most developers do, just because it is aware of their existence while most devs just are not. But then they could also make the mistake at some point, and the vibe coder guiding it might not catch it... Do you have any examples? I find this really interesting. | | |
| ▲ | acdha 7 days ago | parent [-] | | LLMs aren’t aware of anything - that’s pareidolia of intelligence – but they hopefully have been trained on code which has more secure than insecure code. That’ll help with some classes of problem like using string operations to make database queries but it does have the cost that people might not review it as deeply for more subtle problems. |
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| ▲ | zapataband2 7 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| How do I get in this business |