| ▲ | Animats 3 days ago |
| This encourages self-censorship, or what's called "anticipatory obedience". YouTube has become much worse about censorship. Pepe's Towing, LA's main towing company for major truck accidents, complains that YouTube took down some of their videos. Their videos are simply detailed coverage of the complex but effective process by which large vehicles that had accidents are lifted, rotated upright, placed on their wheels or on a large dolly as necessary, and towed away.
Their people wear body cams, like cops, their cranes have cameras, and sometimes they use a DJI drone. (They bring out the drone when someone drives off an embankment and they need to plan a difficult lift.) The main purpose of all the video is to settle arguments with insurance companies over the cost of recovery.
But they started a YouTube channel for PR purposes. Almost all this video is taken on public property on LA county roads and freeways, with the cooperation of the cops, CALTRANS, local fire departments, and other organizations that clean up other people's messes. These are very public activities, with traffic streaming by and sometimes news helicopters hovering overhead.
Totally First Amendment protected. Not a violation of YouTube's stated policies. So what's the YouTube censorship about? Preventing corporate embarrassment. Their older videos have clear pictures of truck doors with ownership info. Container markings. License plates. Pictures of damaged goods. Now. out of fear of being cancelled by YouTube, they're blurring everything identifiable. Recently someone rolled over a semitrailer full of melons, and they blurred out not just the trucking company info, but the labels on the melons. Which the people from Pepe's say is silly, but they don't want to fight with YouTube. |
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| ▲ | jmpman 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| During the George Floyd death, the only place I could find the entire unedited footage was on liveleak, including when Floyd got into and subsequently out of the police cruiser. Nowhere else could I find that, and wondered why such an important event, triggering such outrage - didn’t have all the video available for everyone to view. A cynical person would suggest that the entire unedited footage conflicted with whatever narrative the media was pushing at the time. |
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| ▲ | mindslight 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Talk about anticipatory obedience, read the rest of this thread. oof. This is about a government created footage from a surveillance camera. Copyright, or any other notion of imaginary property, most certainly does not apply. There are no financial damages. The video is not classified. It's essentially a public record, and FOIA likely does apply (as noted by one tiny comment). At best this is an internal policy violation that might possibly result in a termination for cause (although government employees tend to have more protections). And yet people are still falling over themselves to reason that going against the desires of your employer must of course be illegal somehow. Not just written up per employer's policies, not just fired, not a civil suit if you've caused actual damage - but an escalation to criminal charges with the possibility of jail time, merely for not following an employer's whims. The degree to which we've already allowed top-down authoritarianism to infest our thinking is sickening. And I think overbroad laws like the murderous CFAA have a lot to do with this. Rather than defining narrowly-scoped trespasses and a clear boundary where the rights of an individual end, they've entrenched draconian legal regimes that arbitrarily create harsh penalties. So the only way to avoid running afoul of them is to avoid upsetting anybody who might have the power to use them on you. Society has generalized this as top-down authoritarianism that flows along economic power relations, and it's sad. |
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| ▲ | trogdor 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > This is about a government created footage from a surveillance camera. Copyright, or any other notion of imaginary property, most certainly does not apply. That is incorrect. Copyright generally does not attach to works created by federal government agencies. The same is not true for works created by state and other sub-national government entities. Harvard has an online resource center where you can learn more about this. See https://copyright.lib.harvard.edu/states/ I do think it’s true that this particular footage is in the public domain. >It's essentially a public record, and FOIA likely does apply (as noted by one tiny comment). FOIA does not apply to MWAA records. MWAA has its own access to public records policy that applies to its records. I have the unfortunate privilege of being a quasi-expert at dealing with MWAA and its records. I am one of three people to have ever appealed a MWAA Freedom of Information Policy all the way to arbitration. (Bizarrely, binding arbitration is a requester’s final recourse. Unlike every other government entity that I know of, litigation is not an option if you think MWAA has not followed their Freedom of Information Policy.) See https://www.mwaa.com/sites/mwaa.com/files/legacyfiles/freedo... | |
| ▲ | jofla_net 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is, in its most true form, a modern-day sefdom, bound by soft power, hopelessness, and above all else an unquenchable aversion to risk. The risk part predicated upon the delusion that we are in end times and things couldn't be better, so don't rock that boat. It appropriately fills the void that religion used to. |
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| ▲ | therealpygon 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Right. A business is using the logos of other businesses to advertise their business…those vehicles are directly the subject of the video. That’s not allowed; it doesn’t make it not the case simply by the location filmed. Put it this way, I make a video and say my restaurant is great because restaurant B gets low health scores, then I plaster restaurant B’s logo all over my video to advertise my own business. Why would the fact that I stood on a public sidewalk make a difference? (Note: I’m only talking about your described example.) |
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| ▲ | mindslight 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | They are not using logos to advertise their business. They are using footage of their business operations to promote their business. This footage happens to contain logos of other businesses, because those other businesses put their logos places where they might be incidentally filmed. Trademark law does not give one the right to police any time your logo appears, nor does it protect one from criticism. Your analogy misses the mark. A more appropriate analogy would be someone taking a promotional selfie while walking down the street, which includes businesses' signs in the background. | | |
| ▲ | Animats 2 days ago | parent [-] | | One of the videos mentioned: "Speeding Trailer with 50,000lb of Melons Rolls Over & Rips Open"[1] It shows the practical problems of uprighting a trailer that's torn at the seams. There wasn't enough structural integrity left for a simple crane lift. So they needed inflatable air bags, wooden blocks, and multiple cranes to get the thing upright. Then they moved it a bit with the cranes to unblock a lane of the freeway ramp. Then it took tens of people from CALTRANS to unload 50,000 pounds of melons so the damaged trailer could be removed empty as one piece. Everything that could identify the trucking company or even the source of the melons was blurred out, which is a lot of work for the towing company guy who does these videos between tow jobs. There's no copyright issue; all pictures were taken by employees of the towing company. There's no trademark issue; showing a logo for identification purposes is legal. There's no customer confusion issue; it's clear that the towing company isn't in the melon business. There's no trade secret issue; this was a very public event, on public property, with TV news coverage. There's no intent to defame issue; the towing company was there because the California Highway Patrol called them to clean up the mess, not because someone didn't like the guy who rolled over his truck. There's no right of publicity issue for a wrecked truck. There's no ownership right to the video because the trucker didn't contract with the towing company; the California Highway Patrol did. (The trucker will be getting a big bill from the state.) There's no issue of "interfering with police" - the cops called in the towing company and guided them to the scene. There's nothing in IP law that applies here. Just fear of YouTube. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M5RnQlSJ58 | | |
| ▲ | therealpygon 2 days ago | parent [-] | | That instance sounds like a clear cut abuse then, why isn’t a fine being sought as allowed? |
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| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | ptx 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If the intention of the videos is to cover the process of towing the cars in general, then there is no need to include specific personally identifiable information, so removing those details seems quite reasonable to me. Regardless of Youtube's rules, this just seems like good practice. Surveys and opinion polls in newspapers and scientific research normally redact that sort of information, for example. |
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| ▲ | poemxo 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I wonder when people in the west will start flocking to Telegram groups (or equivalent) to get the real information the way they do elsewhere. |
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| ▲ | anonym29 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Trading one "private sector" state surveillance and narrative control platform for another isn't much of an improvement. That said, I hate to break it to you, but there is no real question of 'when', or even 'if'. The general public simply does not care, no matter how much abuse they are subjected to by mainstream platform operators. There will always be a minority who care enough to embrace decentralization, open source, good e2ee, but they are the exception to the vast majority, at least inside the US, who simply do not care enough to change their behavior. What percentage of Americans do you think would voluntarily, permanently relinquish their own fourth amendment rights for $5000? Scary thought experiment when you recall studies that have found only two thirds of Americans can name all three branches of government, or that fewer than one in four can name any right secured by the first amendment other than freedom of speech. https://studyfinds.org/constitution-americans-rights/ | | |
| ▲ | blooalien 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > ... "only two thirds of Americans can name all three branches of government, or that fewer than one in four can name any right secured by the first amendment other than freedom of speech." Mere decades ago, not knowing this kinda stuff would get you failed in grade-school Civics class, and again in junior high, and yet again in high-school (at least where I grew up, here in the "Great NorthWest" Rocky Mountains area USA). Used to be that knowing the basics about how your government worked and what your rights and responsibilities are as a citizen was considered "required knowledge" (right alongside basic history, math, reading, etc) to help prepare you for "life in the real world". | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 days ago | parent [-] | | It's still required knowledge. People have always crammed for the tests, then promptly forgotten it. | | |
| ▲ | blooalien 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > ... "then promptly forgotten it." Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it's mistakes. :shrug: |
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| ▲ | wkat4242 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Here in Spain we use telegram a lot. I've heard in the US it's used only for piracy and drugs but we use it for everything. There's groups letting people know of Nvidia card availability. Groups for every community I'm part of (WhatsApp sucks at group chats), from makerspaces, lgbt events to tattoo artists, gigs etc. There's also a group exposing the faces of metro pickpockets because the police doesn't care. Stuff like that. The good thing is that Telegram is not American so you don't get this prude censorship BS that you get on American apps (show half a nipple and get banned). Especially in the LGBT groups this can be a problem but also in the makerspace one (one of our members really loves making certain toys lol). Of course actual porn is not ok but that's fine, we don't use it for that. I also like that their premium subscription is super affordable, only 2€ per month (it's cheaper if you don't pay through the Apple/Google ripoff stores) and it offers a lot of cool and useful features like automatic translation and transcription (which actually works unlike WhatsApp's) I'm really quite happy with it and on top of everything bots are a fully supported first class citizen there so you don't have to screw around with hacky code like with WhatsApp. I have several bots for myself. So if there's a feature I want that it doesn't have I can simply add it! | |
| ▲ | spicyusername 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In almost every context when someone says something like "real information" it almost always means "information I like or agree with". | | |
| ▲ | tomp 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Clearly “real information” here means “not blurred”. Stop spreading FUD. | | |
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| ▲ | closewith 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Outside the US, WhatsApp already fills that role, but like Telegram, "real information" is an optimistic descriptor. |
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