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sherburt3 3 days ago

[flagged]

sojournerc 3 days ago | parent [-]

Cool take. Shitting on the south is an age old American tradition. I have a hard time understanding why people gleefully have these attitudes towards fellow human beings. Does someone from Mississippi not deserve factual actual push back against these laws? If we can't fight it there, it'll be in Connecticut soon enough.

LexiMax 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Hating on Mississippi is an age-old Southern tradition.

Unless you're from Mississippi, then you hate on Alabama.

RajT88 3 days ago | parent [-]

By any number of metrics, Mississippi is the least developed, most backwater state.

My own personal metrics: Everyone's got that once racist uncle. Mine moved gleefully to Alabama. I have never known anyone who moved to Mississippi. Or from there!

I bet MS has some amazing old homes out in the swamp with great fishing.

greenie_beans 3 days ago | parent [-]

you're probably from a place that is just as racist and backward as mississippi. maybe new england, the most racist region in the united states? if you feel this way about the south, just say you hate black people and be done with it.

RajT88 2 days ago | parent [-]

Blue as they come (Illinois). And on the contrary, I reckon Ohio is far more racist than just about any place I've been. Black folks are just fine by me. Maybe you are trying to read between the lines instead of what I wrote?

MisterBastahrd 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When you consistently shoot yourself in the face despite all evidence because you believe it'll make you wiser, at some point rational people just need to point out that maybe you've blown your own head off too many times to make intelligent decisions and accept your agency for your actions. Mississippi is governed by fear, full stop. Specifically, a fear that their individual mediocrity will trickle down to their children and so they will vote to make life as difficult as possible just to make it harder for people in even lower social strata to compete with them. I've lived through decades of this stuff and watched it up close and personal.

They're SO racist that when you give them statistics about their state and their communities, the first thing they'll do is handwave them away because to them, statistics are irrelevant if they contain data regarding minorities UNLESS said statistics are there to condemn minorities. Same thing with people in different economic classes. Generalizations are there for them to make about other people, not the other way around.

Mississippi has one of the higher murder rates? Irrelevant to them because they have a higher number of black folks. Murder rates among whites in the state are high? Irrelevant because it's the poor whites who are murdering each other. At some point, you just have to accept that the conditions they're living in are the conditions they're choosing to live in and treat them accordingly.

ronsor 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I read the comment more as a criticism of Bluesky ("nobody actually uses it [except California liberals?]") than a criticism of Mississippi.

sherburt3 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I live in the south bro. That was a dig towards bluesky being a shitty twitter clone.

TylerE 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

gottorf 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> get them to stop actively voting against their own interests

Such a tired trope that I wish would stop. The whole point of a plural democracy is that people will have different interests, and there are few things that rub me the wrong way more than the idea that people are too stupid to recognize what their own interests are and vote accordingly.

TylerE 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

What do call it when they repeatedly vote to slash the health care programs that almost half the state relies on for coverage? For candidates that defund education and basic infrastructure investment? It is objectively against rational self-interest.

greenie_beans 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

what do they call it when a lot of the people in the state don't vote because of a history of disenfranchisement? or when power is taken away from groups of people due to redistricting? when many people can't get to the polls because it's far away or they have work? and when the absentee ballot process is hard? or when they purge the voter registration, requiring people to re-register, if they realize it before it's too late? this last one happened to me.

less than 60% of eligible voters in the state cast a vote in the 2024 election. there was lower turnout in 2024 election among black voters. here is more data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidentia...

what do you call it when both candidates aren't good enough for those people, so they resign to not vote?

what do you call it when college-educated liberals disparage the poorest, blackest state in the union? definitely not progressive. maybe "racist"

oooyay 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

While I share your frustration can I also share with you that I think your original take is entirely dim-witted and ignorant that populations are not singular voting blocs? That's to say, I lived in Texas for a long time as a leftist and people like you would come in to dunk on our suffering. Nearly half the state votes Democrat but that didn't matter to folks like you. It's unproductive and isolates more people than it gratifies.

JustExAWS 3 days ago | parent [-]

There is a huge difference between accepting someone’s opinion about supply side economics or US foreign policy or heck even abortion rights than “understanding” someone who doesn’t believe that people shouldn’t be treated equally and with respect because of the color of their skin, their sexuality, etc.

I’m from South GA and spent all of my adult life until 3 years ago in Atlanta. I live in another red state now - Florida. I’ve spent enough time in the bigger cities in Texas to have a feel for it. Alabama and Mississippi are just…different.

oooyay a day ago | parent | next [-]

Not sure that you and I disagree here friendo. I was replying to this (which was dead by the time I arrived): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44992082

What I was speaking to was the ignorance of referring to the entire state as a singular voting bloc. A lot of liberals and leftists will happily cut each other down over something as simple as geography by wishing ill on an entire state with some kind of "you earned it" smugness. Not super productive.

gottorf 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> “understanding” someone who doesn’t believe that people shouldn’t be treated equally and with respect because of the color of their skin, their sexuality, etc.

Can you steelman the culturally conservative viewpoint? I find this to be a big blind spot in today's progressive thinkers; i.e. it's hard for someone in that camp to explain why anyone would have voted for Trump, without dipping into the "they know not what they're voting for" or "they're just ignorant, racist, and hateful" buckets.

> Alabama and Mississippi are just…different.

I'm a visibly nonwhite immigrant who moved to one of those "different" states from a large coastal metro. I'm not treated any worse or differently in society.

Perhaps the biggest disparity I've noticed is that the Old South still believes that it's good for society for people of various backgrounds to assimilate to one central culture, whereas the more cosmopolitan metros seem to have declared assimilation as an imposition on minority groups.

I believe the former to be the correct position, and closer to the original "liberal" belief that anybody, no matter what they look like, will be treated equally as long as they are willing to play by the same rules. The latter viewpoint to me is very much like "separate but equal"; no one cultural group has any say over another, and there is not one standard set of behaviors that everyone is expected to conform to, because differences are valued over unity.

It has been fascinating to see, as someone with an outsider's background, the realignment of political thought over the past decade or two.

JustExAWS 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Can you steelman the culturally conservative viewpoint? I find this to be a big blind spot in today's progressive thinkers; i.e. it's hard for someone in that camp to explain why anyone would have voted for Trump, without dipping into the "they know not what they're voting for" or "they're just ignorant, racist, and hateful" buckets.

I can’t possibly steel man why someone thinks it’s their right to tell another adult why they shouldn’t be able to date or marry who they choose whether it be someone of the same sex or someome of a different color. Liberty University just recently lifted the ban on interracial dating.

I am not saying everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I hear some of the things that come from Democrats and I can perfectly understand why some traditional Republicans hold their nose and vote for Trump because the alternative is worse.

> I'm not treated any worse or differently in society.

And being an immigrant in the US (along as you aren’t Hispanic) is a completely different experience than being Black. I’ve moved to Florida now.

Have you spent time in “their spaces”? Have you gone to a White Evangelical church? Have your kids tried dating their kids?

Again I’m not saying “all white people are racist” far from it. I’ve tried to even distinguish between “George Bush”/“Mitt Romney”/“John McCain” conservatives and whatever the hell is going on now.

I lived in what was a famous “Sundown town” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town) until the early 90s. I didn’t move there until 2016 when I had a house built in the burbs. My six foot two 230 pound+ stepson who has lived in the burbs all of his life often got questioned walking down the street of our own neighborhood and when he went to the community pool.

> Perhaps the biggest disparity I've noticed is that the Old South still believes that it's good for society for people of various backgrounds to assimilate to one central culture, whereas the more cosmopolitan metros seem to have declared assimilation as an imposition on minority groups.

To be blunt, I don’t have to assimilate shit and neither does a gay person who wants to walk around with their partner just to make other people comfortable or any other non white/non straight person.

If you have an accent, of course they are going to be respectful to your face. But they are going to complain just like they complain when people are speaking Spanish to each other.

Another anecdote, now I live in a resort area in Florida upstairs from a bar that is all tourist besides us (long story). Every Friday and Saturday night, they have karaoke and a live DJ. It’s mostly your standard non offensive top 40 music from the last 20-25 years.

Around 10 o clock, a large Latin American group came. I was already talking to a guy from Puerto Rico. The DJ started playing a Latin playlist and they all started dancing, there was another group there from Alabama and you could just see the looks on their faces.

My wife and I (Black) hung around, my wife started dancing with them, I used my A2 level (https://www.colegioespana.com/en/levels-of-spanish-language/) barely fluent Spanish to talk to some of them who didn’t speak English.

They also didn’t owe it to anyone to “assimilate” and they appreciated the effort that I made.

gottorf 2 days ago | parent [-]

I appreciate your viewpoint, though I disagree with some of it. I am not black, and I understand that this is a differentiating factor for some people. I personally know someone who has a troubled relationship with her family for, among other things, marrying a black man, so I know that old-school racism is still alive[0][1].

> They also didn’t owe it to anyone to “assimilate”

People around the world have wildly different expectations of what is considered normal behavior in public. In some parts of the world, defecating in public is acceptable. But I would not find it tolerable if someone were to originate from a place like that, come to this country, and engage in the same behavior. I would highly encourage such a person to assimilate to the norm in this country of not defecating in public, and were they not able to do so, I would be antagonistic against more of such people immigrating to this country.

I don't know whether in your anecdote the large Latin American group were tourists or people who live here. My expectations would be very different depending on it. Neither I nor anyone else expects tourists to be fluent in the local language and cultural customs. But conversely, I would not like to live in a country where I do not even speak the same language as my fellow countrymen; the very meaning seems to lose itself.

So, respectfully, I disagree fundamentally: those who choose to put down new roots in a different country absolutely do owe it to the existing inhabitants to assimilate. I, as an immigrant, owe it to existing Americans to assimilate to the American way of life. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

I believe there should always be open dialogue on what the culture exactly is to assimilate to, and such things should change slowly over time, but to suggest that nobody new owes anything to those who were there before seems neither true nor good immigration policy.

> To be blunt, I don’t have to assimilate shit and neither does a gay person who wants to walk around with their partner just to make other people comfortable

> I can’t possibly steel man why someone thinks it’s their right to tell another adult why they shouldn’t be able to date or marry who they choose whether it be someone of the same sex or someome of a different color.

Would you draw the line anywhere? Does any adult have the right to tell another anything, especially if they are of different groups (however you may slice and dice it)? Does anyone owe anything to the society around them? Are there norms that everyone is expected to adhere to, despite the fact that some people are naturally further away from those norms than others? Because it seems like the West has tried saying no to all of these questions for 50 years, and it has resulted in atomized and fractious societies where people, despite material wealth unimaginable to previous generations, are so, so unhappy.

I would like to live someplace where people treat each other fairly and as individuals, without regard for stereotypes of whatever cultural, ethnic, religious, sexual, or other background such individuals may belong to. I do not believe that this is at all possible without everyone playing by the same set of rules.

Let me extend your anecdote about your stepson, to illustrate my point: it is a failing if a white youth of the same size who was dressed exactly the same and behaved the same way did not get stopped and asked questions the same way your stepson did, only by virtue of the color of his skin. But it is equally a failing if white adult were to find a black youth's behavior to out of the ordinary in a negative way[2], but was not able to voice any concerns solely out of racial sensibilities. Both mean that one is putting immutable group characteristics over the individual.

My thesis is thus: we can either have a multiethnic society where we all debate what "the ordinary" is and agree to follow it (notwithstanding the likelihood that the debate, by virtue of numbers, ends up near the dominant group's preferences), or we can have monoethnic societies, either in parallel ("separate but equal" where each group plays by their own rules with minimal crossover) or as the eventual result of a vicious struggle between the factions that leaves only one standing. There is no alternative that is sustainable over the long term. My clear preference is the first.

[0]: But perhaps on life support, to quote Sowell.

[1]: As you have alluded to, one might reasonably believe that the current progressive viewpoint on race is making race relations worse.

[2]: Only a hypothetical example; I am not saying that your stepson was engaging in any behavior out of the ordinary. The same applies for any two different groups.

JustExAWS 2 days ago | parent [-]

> I would highly encourage such a person to assimilate to the norm in this country of not defecating in public, and were they not able to do so, I would be antagonistic against more of such people immigrating to this country.

Do you also believe that Muslim women should be forced to take off their hijab or that it should be illegal for them to wear burkinis in public pools like the laws they passed in France?

Should gay people not hold hands in public because it may make straight people uncomfortable?

When a Spanish family is speaking to each other in public, should they speak English? This really offends some people.

I go to a barber shop where everyone speaks Spanish and they play Spanish music. Most of them speak English also. But when they speak to each other, they speak Spanish. If I happen to go to the barber who doesn’t speak English, I switch to my limited Spanish and keep it moving.

The “norms” the culturally conservative want is perfect English without a foreign accent, straight, Christian.

> So, respectfully, I disagree fundamentally: those who choose to put down new roots in a different country absolutely do owe it to the existing inhabitants to assimilate. I, as an immigrant, owe it to existing Americans to assimilate to the American way of life. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

If someone can manage in this country catering to people who speak their language, why should it be anyone’s business if they speak English?

> But it is equally a failing if white adult were to find a black youth's behavior to out of the ordinary in a negative way[2]

This kind of thing happens all of the time to Black people living in White neighborhoods. Ving Rhames was in his own house minding his business and got SWAT called on him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/actor-ving-rhames-said-...

How many times has a White person been harassed outside of their own home and having to prove they live there.

> or we can have monoethnic societies, either in parallel ("separate but equal" where each group plays by their own rules with minimal crossover) or as the eventual result of a vicious struggle between the factions that leaves only one standing.

Or we can do like I’m suggesting and treat people like people, celebrate the gay couple, mixed race couple, etc who decide to get married. Dance salsa when the Latin music comes on. Be willing to sing along with the country music, hip hop, rock, music when the DJ plays it.

When me or my step son is walking in the neighborhood where I was making twice the median household income of the most affluent area in Atlanta (working remotely for BigTech), mind your business instead of putting a message on NextDoor about a strange Black man suspiciously walking into his own house with a key.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-chief-orders-probe-handcuff...

wkat4242 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The current administration which benefits only billionaires which make up a tiny fraction of the population proves that yes people aren't capable of voting for their interests.

pixl97 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It may rub you the wrong way, but it's happened many times throughout history. Paradox of tolerance and all.

JustExAWS 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well it’s true. The cuts to healthcare and other budget cuts are going to hurt people in Mississippi more than California.

If you ask them why they vote the way they do, it’s because their “interest” or some combination of Trump was sent by God, we must save Isreal so Jesus will have a place to come back to (I don’t have an opinion about Isreal, I just think that’s a crazy reason), evil immigrants and something something “fighting woke idealogy”.

Can you name a single modern Republican policy that would help people in Mississippi?

And I emphasize modern because nothing about today’s national Republican Party resembles the one I’ve known from 1980-2016 or even between 2016-2020 when many held the line against some of the craziness.

And if your response is Democrats have also gone too far in the other direction and out of touch, you won’t get any argument out of me.

add-sub-mul-div 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Your right that interests are varied but to be more specific, what's being pointed out is that people are manipulated into focusing on an emotional interest (hating woke or whatever the current thing is) so that they'll vote against their practical (economic) interests. It's a perennial marshmallow test failure.

JustExAWS 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

They aren’t being “manipulated”. This is no different than the old “Segregation Now. Segregation Tomorrow. Segregation Forever.” George Wallace inauguration in the 1960s.

The south has always cared more about culture wars than their own self interest.

FWIW: I have lived in the south all 51 years of my life - GA until 3 years ago and now Florida.

gottorf 3 days ago | parent [-]

> The south has always cared more about culture wars than their own self interest.

Another way of saying that they[0] value preserving their culture more than economic or financial concerns, is it not?

[0]: Insofar as any group of people can be generalized, of course.

gottorf 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> they'll vote against their practical (economic) interests

Not everyone's top policy priority is what will get them the most taxpayer dollars redistributed in their favor.

JustExAWS 3 days ago | parent [-]

I think everyone has an interest in supporting their addiction to food and shelter.

Yet for the most part, the most Republican leading states are the poorest and already have the largest imbalance of tax and flows versus tax outflows…

You don’t think California and New York contribute less to the government than they receive?

gottorf 2 days ago | parent [-]

> I think everyone has an interest in supporting their addiction to food and shelter.

Maybe if one's income is so low that all they can afford is food and shelter. But this is a rich country, and even Mississippi is very rich by global standards[0]. So there are surplus dollars beyond what goes into food and shelter, and people disagree politically on how much of it should be taxed and what it should be spent on.

I am merely one voter, but I am an example of someone who does not vote solely to enhance my own economic interests, whether spent on food and shelter or not. I will happily take the hit to my wallet for other causes I find worthy. Indeed, I would be extremely skeptical of someone whose highest political imperative was to funnel as much tax dollars as possible to their own wallet, even though by some definition this might be the most "rational" voter behavior.

> the most Republican leading states are the poorest and already have the largest imbalance of tax and flows versus tax outflows

> You don’t think California and New York contribute less to the government than they receive?

This is a point that gets raised often, but there are many confounding factors here, besides "Democrat rich, Republican poor" (and the implication that there is a causal relationship).

At its core, "California" and "New York" don't contribute anything; the people residing in those states who pay taxes do. And, conversely, the people residing in those states receive transfer payments. So you really want to look at the individuals who are net payers of taxes vs. net recipients of taxes and see how they vote and why they live where they live, to get a better idea on what policies may favor contribution.

At a national level, both higher incomes and higher accumulated wealth predict voters favoring Republicans over Democrats[1]. In fact, even among registered Democrats, those with higher incomes or wealth are roughly twice as more likely to vote for the Republican candidate in an election than those with low incomes or wealth. If Democratic policies were truly better for wealth creation, then why would wealth-focused individuals cast their votes the opposite way?

[0]: It has a higher median household income than Germany, which is not a country anyone thinks is poor.

[1]: http://www.lisdatacenter.org/wps/lwswps/19.pdf

JustExAWS 2 days ago | parent [-]

Now compare the life expectancy, education levels, infant mortality rates, etc of Mississippi and Germany?

How many people in Germany don’t have access to health care compared to Mississippi? If you were out of work for a year, would you rather be in Germany or MS?

If California didn’t receive anything from the federal government and didn’t have to pay taxes to the Federal government and the same happen to MS, whose states citizens would be better off?

Let’s go a step further, if all the Blue states were a country and all of the red states were a country, which hypothetical country would be better off?

I vote for policies to help other people. The people in MS voted for a President who promised to hurt the evil brown people, the pet eating Hatians and to “own the libs”

jrockway 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What about the people that didn't vote for this? Every election is 49/51 so when someone says "they're getting what they voted for", half the people are getting the opposite of what they voted for.

TylerE 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

It wasn't close to 51/49. The south doesn't work like that. I've lived here my whole life.

In 2024 Mississippi went 61/38 for Trump. They haven't sent a Democrat senator to DC since 1982. In their most recent state house/senate cycle, 2023, overall voting was 62R vs 34D.

They voted for this.

jjj123 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

OPs point wasn’t about the exact stats, it’s just that there is a significant percentage of people in a state that don’t agree or support their government.

I’d consider 38% significant.

TylerE 3 days ago | parent [-]

In 1980, when Ronald Reagan took 44 of 50 states, Jimmy Carter took 41% of the vote. In electoral terms a party taking 38% of the vote is almost a non-entity. You don't come close to succeeding in a first past the post system with those numbers.

2 days ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
sojournerc 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"here", yet you say "they"... What's that about?

TylerE 3 days ago | parent [-]

I live in the south, but not in Mississippi.

curtisf 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"The Walker Montgomery Protecting Children Online Act" ("HB 1126") was passed essentially unanimously by the Mississippi state legislature.

davesque 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

And 100% of voters in Mississippi voted for the representatives currently in the legislature?

sojournerc 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Elected legislature. You haven't proven anything against their point that a minority is unrepresented.

renewiltord 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

arghandugh 3 days ago | parent [-]

Your writing is confusing and your use of slurs is disgusting. Stop it.

renewiltord 3 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

none_to_remain 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You could very well read that as praise for Mississippi