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123pie123 4 days ago

really?

From my anecdotal evidence, is that it's fucking stupid and hated

jdietrich 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Weirdly, the majority of the British public a) support age verification, b) aren't willing to use age verification themselves and c) don't think it'll actually work.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-back-online-safety-acts-...

burkaman 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Reading the polling questions, it doesn't actually seem that contradictory.

> To what extent do you support or oppose the introduction of age verification checks to access platforms that may host content related to suicide, self-harm, eating disorders and pornography?

Most people say support, presumably thinking "yeah those things seem bad and kids shouldn't be able to look at them".

> How likely or unlikely would you be to submit any proof of age (e.g. a photo/ video, photographic ID, using banking information, digital ID wallets etc) in order to access... Messaging apps / Social media websites / Online discussion forums / User-generated encyclopedias / Dating apps / Pornography websites

"Ok no I don't like this method, and obviously I'm not going to submit a photo of myself to look at porn." I don't think anybody hearing the first question was thinking "yes I support age verification even if it means blocking Wikipedia".

> And how confident, if at all, are you that the Online Safety Act will prevent children and people under 18 from seeing illegal and harmful material online?

Nothing contradictory about supporting a policy that you don't think will completely work, especially after realizing that you yourself would probably try to get around it.

I think combining or switching the first two questions might produce very different results.

HPsquared 3 days ago | parent [-]

It's all very "how to lie with statistics".

WillPostForFood 3 days ago | parent [-]

The world is complicated, and normal to have conflicting ideas.

const_cast 3 days ago | parent [-]

To an extent, but it's also priming, ie lying with statistics.

Obviously if you tell people you're doing something to protect children and that's its only for porn or whatever they'll say yes. You've primed them - you immediately put their minds on the focus of negative things like porn and children getting hurt. Nobody wants children hurt.

You need to ask the question more generically. "Do you support age verification to access certain categories of websites?"

Something tells me the numbers of agreeance will fall.

stuartjohnson12 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The phrasing on these polls is really unhelpful because it doesn't include the actor.

"To what extent do you support or oppose the introduction of age verification checks to access platforms that may host content related to suicide, self-harm, eating disorders, and pornography"

is like asking me

"To what extent do you support the detainment of people suspected of theft"

and then concluding I support vigilante mobs dragging people out of their homes when I answer in the affirmative. The means IS the question - the sad meltdown we're all about to witness as the UK government realises their lack of jurisdiction is because the actor is wrong, not because the end is wrong.

The phrasing should be "To what extent do you support or oppose the British government enforcing the introduction of age verification checks to access platforms that may host content related to suicide, self-harm, eating disorders, and pornography"

Forcing major device manufacturers to implement these content blocks to a certain level of rigour is the obvious, enforceable, effective, minimally invasive way to achieve this entirely reasonable goal. I can believe that pornography consumption by preteens is not a good thing and that this implementation is stupid at the same time.

mattnewton 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Doesn’t seem weird at all, Britons are saying a) I agree children watching porn is bad but b) I value my privacy online and c) don’t think sending in photos of an ID is really going to stop kids. Actually seems pretty reasonable, and a reasonable democratic representative should look at that and say “well, how else can get A if method B is unpopular and unlikely to work?”

Instead they seem to have conflated B with A. Maybe they are afraid that any criticism on this method is interpreted as attack on doing anything at all for kids watching porn on the internet or even twisted into some kind of endorsement.

o11c 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Instead they seem to have conflated B with A. Maybe they are afraid that any criticism on this method is interpreted as attack on doing anything at all for kids watching porn on the internet or even twisted into some kind of endorsement.

In all fairness, I have seen quite a few people explicitly arguing "I want kids to watch porn" of late.

mattnewton 3 days ago | parent [-]

That’s not really being fair if you’re assuming that fringe argument by default though right?

lokar 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They have fair and competitive elections, no?

Eddy_Viscosity2 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Western democracies have fair and competitive elections in the same way they have fair and competitive markets for things like internet access or mobile phones. You are effectively only allowed to choose between a very carefully managed set of choice that are provided to you. This set of choices is often so dire and distant from people's actual desires that many just don't bother voting at all.

George Carlin used the analogy of restaurant to modern democracy. You have the appearance of choice because you are handed a menu where you can choose liberal or conversative or green party, etc. But all of the actual policies and laws are drawn up by the same chefs in the back and you eat what you are served.

lokar 3 days ago | parent [-]

This is my point. You need to identify the source of the problem if you want to take action. Blaming bureaucrats is not helpful.

FirmwareBurner 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Blaming bureaucrats is not helpful.

Bureaucrats are the ones making the rules of the game we have to play. So why shouldn't we blame them?

Eddy_Viscosity2 3 days ago | parent [-]

Chain of events is the lobbyists write the policies that are handed to the politicians who vote them in, then to the bureaucrats to execute them.

But the lobbyists work for the rich and the power. They are ultimately the chefs and ones who decide what the rules will be.

FirmwareBurner 3 days ago | parent [-]

You are correct. But I don't see how we can fix this. Revolutions or rioting, is not the right idea either.

A successful and well functioning democracy requires constant monitoring, involvement and pressure from citizens to hold it accountable, otherwise it gets captured by monopolies and malicious actors with money, who will steer politics in their favor instead of the citizens' favor.

The problem with that is that most citizens today are too burdened by the cost of living and sorting their own lives to have time and energy for political activism. The only ones who do are retired boomers and they only care that their pensions and house prices are going up.

lokar 3 days ago | parent [-]

Democracies can and do correct. It takes time and effort, but it happens. For example the progressive movement in the US.

FirmwareBurner 3 days ago | parent [-]

>Democracies can and do correct.

Yes, but when you ignore citizens' demands for too long, they will then over-correct in the opposite direction: see Hitler, Brexit, Trump, AFD, LePenn, Meloni, etc. History has proved this to be correct 100% of the time.

>For example the progressive movement in the US

Can you provide more details, I'm not an US citizen.

lokar 3 days ago | parent [-]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era

dijit 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

our two party system means that more often than not you are voting against some party having power.

The left wing has been vote split for some time, now the tight wing is getting vote split.

It’s not a fair characterisation to say that the UK government is popular, the last actually popular government was probably Tony Blair (though many regret him in hindsight), though Boris had his followers I guess.

rhdunn 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'd say it is the other way around. -- Support for the Tories/Conservatives has collapsed to the point where they are 4th or even 5th place! Reform have benefitted most from this shift. [1]-[4]

The left wing is seeing Labour voters shift to the Lib Dems, Greens, Jeremy Corbin's new party, and Reform.

[1] https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/services_lsdm.html (April)

[2] https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20250625... (June)

[3] https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html (July)

[4] https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_rrose_20250731.... (August)

HPsquared 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Popular politicians tend to do the most damage.

stuaxo 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

First past the post, and not proportionally representative - so could be improved a lot.

anikom15 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The People’s Republic of China has elections, no?

rwmj 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

First past the post, so no, not really.

Barrin92 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

there's a reason anecdotes aren't data. While people are more divided on the effectiveness, there's pretty overwhelming pubblic support for laws like the Online Safety Act.

https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-brit...

It's always slightly surprising to see Americans online react to this thinking there is some Illuminati conspiracy happening. Britain and Europe are not the US, we don't have much of an interest of having 4chan dictate public policy.

It's also a good lesson in how effective platforms like Twitter can be in manipulating public perception, given that the same users now seem to be able to openly agitate over there.

lenerdenator 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> It's always slightly surprising to see Americans online react to this thinking there is some Illuminati conspiracy happening. Britain and Europe are not the US, we don't have much of an interest of having 4chan dictate public policy.

Too late by about nine years at the very least.

dingnuts 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

quesera 3 days ago | parent [-]

Ignorant and dismissive, sure. But racist? What does that word mean, then?

cbsmith 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Behold, the power of the anecdote.