What the heck, the universal job description of a PM is to genuinely understand the requirements of their product. I'm always baffled how such people stay in those roles without getting fired.

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mdaniel 3 days ago | parent [-]

For consideration, one can pretty objectively determine a programmer who is not qualified. Secretary. CFO. Sysadmin. How would one judge a product manager? That there's no product? That it sucks balls? "We're soliciting feedback and finding product market fit, iterating, A/B testing, we'll be better next quarter, goto 1"

I wouldn't want that job, but I also don't currently know how to bring demonstrable evidence that they're incompetent, either

I have roughly the same opinion about UX folks, but they don't jam up my day to day nearly as much as PMs

	▲	sigotirandolas 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		My only answer to this is, the ones at the top up to the CEO must be mindful enough to realize this, smart enough to figure out a solution, and brave enough to act on it. Otherwise, it's a matter of time until the house of cards falls down and the company stagnates (sadly, the timescales are less of a house of cards, and more like a coal mine fire).