> This just doesn't work. A high-trust society cannot be built by force.

To badly quote Mead, "It's the only thing that ever has". If the incentives are such that defecting becomes less attractive, defection will decrease.

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bee_rider 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t think that’s what a high trust society is. In fact, I’m pretty sure the whole point of the thing is that people in a high trust society don’t defect even when they don’t think they’ll get caught, because they understand that not-defecting is part of the bargain everybody is engaging in to keep the good thing going.

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closewith 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You're just plain wrong. You can enforce compliance - a police state - but it inevitably worsens outcomes for both people who commit crimes and their victims.

But that isn't a high-trust society. In fact a high trust society requires minimal formal policing by definition (and a _lot_ of informal policing by parents, families, friends, and communities).

High-trust societies aren't without their problems, too, as trust is regularly abused.

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randallsquared 5 days ago | parent [-]

A society where trust is regularly abused isn’t—or will not long remain—a “high-trust” society.

Also, it’s not clear me if you really meant that enforcing property laws inevitably worsens outcomes for those who would otherwise have been victims, or if you mean that the now-much-smaller pool of victims have a worse time with effective enforcement. I’d argue that both are false, but the latter at least seems arguable.

	▲	closewith 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		> A society where trust is regularly abused isn’t—or will not long remain—a “high-trust” society. Yes, well, I think you'll find this is how every high-trust society to date has ended up. Trust is abused, usually by the in-group rather than strangers. Abuse of power by politicians, the clergy, authorities like police, etc has largely lead to the collapse of trust across the West. It's part of the inevitable cyclical nature of social change. > Also, it’s not clear me if you really meant that enforcing property laws inevitably worsens outcomes for those who would otherwise have been victims, or if you mean that the now-much-smaller pool of victims have a worse time with effective enforcement. Yes, increasing enforcement without structurally addressing the underlying issues - starting with poverty and wealth inequality - only ever leads to a criminal underclass, more poverty, more crime, and a worse society for everybody, criminals and victims alike. It doesn't create fewer victims, it creates more (and I'm not being mealy-mouthed and counting the criminals as victims). There is no way to police yourself into a better society.