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Michelangelo11 7 days ago

> Each story is Copyright (C) 2022 to its original authors, and all rights are reserved. The book is not public domain, nor is it Creative Commons.

How is this "free online edition" distinct from piracy, in that case?

michaelbuckbee 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's hosted on one of the author's sites. The collection itself is (as far as I can tell) out of print. It's falling through the cracks of "too complicated for a publisher to figure the rights out of" and "not lucrative enough for anyone to care".

wat10000 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

It’s possible that it’s being distributed with permission of the copyright holders. Given the number of different people involved that seems kind of unlikely, but “free” doesn’t have to imply a permissive license.

mindcrime 6 days ago | parent [-]

I think it's normal for the publisher to hold those rights (perhaps shared with the original authors, depending on the details of their agreements), so possibly all that would have been required here would be for the publisher to approve doing this.

Or maybe Rucker and all of the other authors are friends, and keep in touch, and he just literally called all of the up and said "Hey, can I post Mirrorshades online for posterity?" and they all agreed. Who knows?

Filligree 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

But it’s a published work. I wouldn’t expect the author to have rights to post it.

mindcrime 6 days ago | parent [-]

Not by default, no. But it seems entirely reasonable that he may have approached the original publisher, requested permission to post this, and received said permission. Considering that the print book has been out of print for some time, and given that the linked page does emphasize the copyright status of the works, this feels like the most likely scenario to me.

jll29 6 days ago | parent [-]

It would have been a good idea to add a note saying "republished here by permission of all copyright holders".

specproc 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He drew hard on his cigarette. Annoyance flickered across his face, like an artefact in the poorly-compressed bootleg movies he sold to his fellow low-lifes at The Pig and Drum.

Some Corpo-type, no doubt. Can't help seeing something good scroll across their feed tube without calling Legal.

He'd worked with a few in the past. Not bad all-in-all, at least they paid on time. That said, he could think of few he'd drink with.

He toyed with the idea of leaving a bitchy comment. Probably get downvoted to oblivion.

The dogs in the yard barked at a passing vehicle.

Irritated by the animal noise and the corpo whining, he thrashed something out. Pulling another cigarette from his pack, he hit "reply".

Michelangelo11 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Some Corpo-type, no doubt.

The opposite. Consider Harlan Ellison's views on piracy: "If you put your hand in my pocket, you’ll drag back six inches of bloody stump."

aidenn0 6 days ago | parent [-]

Harlan Ellison was an asshole though.

Michelangelo11 6 days ago | parent [-]

I wouldn't describe him that way but, at any rate, his point is right: pirating books is taking money out of authors' pockets. Corporations (publishers?) aren't hit hardest and don't care the most about it.

You may prefer the same point expressed in less colorful language by Ursula K. LeGuin, from the same article as Ellison's quote: “I thought, who do these people think they are? Why do they think they can violate my copyright and get away with it?” https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/technology/internet/12dig...

Now, as we found out in the meantime from Rudy Rucker's comment, this anthology isn't pirated after all. If you put up your work for free, there's no piracy.

aidenn0 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

I have no issue with Ellison's colorful language, but the point expressed by LeGuin is quite different. Copyright violation is not theft. It's not even a criminal charge in the US unless done for profit! You know what also deprives authors of royalties? Borrowing books from public libraries, buying used books, and loaning books to friends. So does playing video games instead of reading a book! The fact that an action yields less money to an author does not in-and-of-itself make it theft, or even immoral.

Copyright was chartered to encourage authors to contribute to a large public domain of works. Lobbying (by wealthy corporations) perverted this purpose. Sure it's a nice fringe benefit that some authors were made more comfortable by this. That doesn't stop many authors from taking a "I wrote it, it's mine" attitude as if a monopoly on the use of works you authored is a natural right.

LeGuin has taken a nuanced view on this, with the apparent understanding that copyright is a framework under which she was promised certain things, and the piracy is a violation of that promise.

Michelangelo11 5 days ago | parent [-]

> That doesn't stop many authors from taking a "I wrote it, it's mine" attitude as if a monopoly on the use of works you authored is a natural right.

I think that monopoly (with various caveats, e.g. it can't outlive you much, etc.) is a good thing for authors to have, as it enables them to make a living off of their writing. Authors weren't just "made more comfortable" by this as a fringe benefit, as you say, but really, they were able to make a living from their creative work. Harlan Ellison himself says so in that article, and there are countless instances of up-and-coming writers fighting piracy (one legendary story is how Tolkien fought pirating of LOTR in the U.S. soon after it was printed in the UK).

Also, I don't see how LeGuin's point is substantively different from Ellison's -- they are both saying they'll fight people who distribute their books without paying them, the author.

On that note, this argument:

> You know what also deprives authors of royalties? Borrowing books from public libraries, buying used books, and loaning books to friends. So does playing video games instead of reading a book!

... is partly false -- authors do get payouts from libraries. As for "playing video games instead of reading a book", that's absurd -- the problem with pirating is that you get for free something that the creator has produced. For your argument to be true, we would somehow have to assume that the creator is entitled to us spending time reading their books, which is obviously insane.

As for the other things you mention -- buying used books and loaning them from friends -- they have essentially no overlap with online piracy. Piracy is a problem because you can distribute infinite copies worldwide for free, which doesn't apply to selling or loaning physical books.

aidenn0 5 days ago | parent [-]

> Authors weren't just "made more comfortable" by this as a fringe benefit, as you say, but really, they were able to make a living from their creative work

By "made more comfortable" I was not referring to the existence of copyright at all, but rather the multiple extensions that were made from 1976 to 1998, where copyright terms went from 56 years to over 95 years[1].

If the Ace paperback edition of LoTR was piracy, then I question the meaning of the term, since the original US publisher imported British editions which lacked the (then required) US copyright notice. Note also that Ace ceased publishing this edition (and paid Tolkein) due to public pressure, not any legal threats.

(Also lest I misrepresent myself, there were many good changes to copyright in 1976, including removing the notice requirement that caused Tolkein so much trouble).

1: Prior to 1976 the lifetime of the author did not involve in the calculation, and literature is one place where works-for-hire are still rare this is more complicated than just 39 years longer; nevertheless 70 years from the (last in the case of multiple) author's death is always more protection than 56 years, and may be considerably more for a young author. This also reinforces my point that media corporations (where work-for-hire is the norm) benefited from this rather more than authors.

Michelangelo11 2 days ago | parent [-]

OK. I don't really have an opinion on the length of copyright, and I could definitely be persuaded that 70 years after death is too long -- prima facie, it looks too long. But we were talking about the permissibility of online piracy and the validity of copyright per se, not the right length of copyright.

Yeul 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

But they do get away with it! And that's the whole point of cyberpunk.

debo_ 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You perfectly articulated how I felt about this thread.

vessenes 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Man I can only hear this in Keanu's voice.

charlieglass 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I gigglesnorted.

mindcrime 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The Pig and Drum.

Please tell me that is a real place! :=)

specproc 6 days ago | parent [-]

It was.

slightwinder 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's free to read, not free to use. As it's from one of the involved authors, they probably got permission for this release. The problem with piracy is lack of permission/consent, not the act itself.

People are making books freely available all the time, even those they sell on other platforms. Nothing wrong with this.

dfxm12 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Consider the popular cliche, "free as in beer vs free as in speech".

The rights copyright gives you, briefly, includes: copy, distribute, adapt, display, and perform a creative work. What suggests there is piracy is going on?

Finnucane 6 days ago | parent [-]

In 1986, it was unlikely that the original contract for the book mentioned anything about electronic rights. As it was a reprint anthology, the rights purchased would have only covered the use in the anthology as long as it was in print. Which means that to post the book online, Rucker would have to contact the individual contributors and get new permissions. Did he do that? I make a guess that he did not. It is not clear from what is stated here.

vessenes 6 days ago | parent [-]

Yep he did, according to the top comment

debo_ 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The 'punk' in cyberpunk is intended to be punk.