I haven't heard of those, thank you.

I think my issue with the smaller players is that I've been burnt too many times where they've just stopped development or cancelled the product because it wasn't profitable. So I've generally steered away from them.

On the other side of course, what happens with the big players is the enshittification of the product which I think is slowly happening to Notion, though it still ticks enough boxes that it's the preferred option.