It is shocking because ACH fraud in the US is shockingly easy to commit if you have the equivalent to someone's IBAN (ie routing + account number).

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Nextgrid 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Can ACH not be reversed? My understanding is that the European systems are just as vulnerable, but what makes them "secure" is that they can be reversed no-questions-asked, making such an attack pointless unless you know the account holder isn't going to notice it for months.

	▲	rkomorn 3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Not sure what you mean by "reversed". You have 60 days to tell your bank the transaction wasn't authorized, iirc, and you should get reimbursed. It might just be a hassle and it likely wouldn't be quick. I've only had to deal with credit card fraud in the US and it was easy enough. I did have a restaurant accidentally charge me $983 instead of $98.30 on a debit card for a meal during a holiday and, even though they immediately voided it, that still ended up basically blocking almost $1000 for several days. I can't imagine reversing an ACH transaction would be faster. Overall I have no huge complaints about banking in the US. I just find it better in Europe so far, particularly sending money with IBANs.
	▲	tpm 3 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		No, European systems are not vulnerable like this. You can't do anything given my IBAN etc., you would need access to my banking app or website plus whatever 2fa I have set up there to send money from my account. And SEPA transfers can't be reversed easily AFAIK.

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tpm 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Never mind individuals, but how are businesses sending money to each other then? Would it not be much cheaper to use a system like SEPA/IBAN too?

	▲	rkomorn 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		I don't actually know how B2B works, first hand. As a consumer, though, the way things work in Europe (at least where I live) just make more sense to me than what I experienced in the US.