| ▲ | chongli 6 days ago |
| 2. Highest resolution/bitrate/quality that was available at the time of the work's original release. Arguably higher. For example, fans of Star Wars have scanned the original 1977 theatrical release with very high quality film scanners and created a 4K release complete with film grain and the original scenes intact which is not available through approved channels. |
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| ▲ | cosmic_cheese 6 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| There’s also a number of movies where the best quality publicly available is a pirated rip of an HDTV broadcast from a Malaysian TV network or something similarly odd because the rights holders never released a BD and the official DVD release was a transfer from a crappy VHS or similar. In cases of TV shows, fans have gone to the lengths of producing the best quality release possible by patching together video, audio, and subtitles from myriad sources, sometimes even splicing individual cuts when their quality varies between sources. It’s so much more effort than you’d see from any official restorations. |
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| ▲ | lyu07282 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The criterion collection being the one noteable exception, and they have their own standalone streaming service that is pretty good: https://www.criterionchannel.com/browse | | |
| ▲ | JeremyStinson 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Ironically, signing-up to Criterion isn't available in Australia: -------- Request Access Sorry. This is currently unavailable in your region.
Type in your email below and tell the producers you want it in your country! | | | |
| ▲ | biztos 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm a subscriber, but the Criterion apps do downloads right some of the time if you're lucky, the choice of subtitles is usually English or English, discovery is Netflix-level bad, they can't be bothered to create any interactive info, and most of the actual Collection is not available for streaming. I still pay them every month because they have the goods but it's so frustrating that the people with the most film-buff oriented catalog and their hearts (presumably) in the right place have so little ability to deliver on UX. (I used to subscribe to MUBI as well, which is stronger for new indie films, but didn't have time for both, and MUBI app was so bad it could have been a fork of the Criterion app.) |
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| ▲ | qingcharles 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah, IIRC NHK broadcast some movies, like 2001, in 8K scans that are hard to find even on the high seas. And there are one or two movies that have leaked in DCP 4K, which look absolutely stunning if you have the hardware to play them. | |
| ▲ | PetitPrince 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > In cases of TV shows Can you give me some examples of those guerilla remaster ? I know of the various Star Wars projects (Harmy and the likes) and the remaster from "La Classe Américaine", but I don't know any others. A French movie that bungle together several excerpt from classic Warner movie to tell its own humorous story. A cult classic for French millennials. The director later on went on to make The Artist to universal acclaim. | | |
| ▲ | SSLy 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Right now it's usually CINEPHiLES remuxes, that pick absolute best sources available, and sometimes splice the video to get each shot the best possible treatment from the available bitstreams | | | |
| ▲ | 542354234235 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | A couple I can remember off the top of my head, since I can't check my server right now. Scrubs with original music, since they didn't have the license for the original songs for streaming (or the DVDs, I can't remember). Daria with the original music for the same reason. I can't think of any fan visual remasters of tv shows though. |
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| ▲ | account42 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's really infuriating how many TV series are only (legally) available as horribly over-compressed and interlaced DVDs outside of streaming platforms. |
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| ▲ | dddgghhbbfblk 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The Star Wars project is a bit of an outlier in terms of the insane work and dedication that's gone into it. However, in the quality-focused corners of online film piracy, it's still pretty routine for people to combine the best features of every retail release available to produce something that's better than what you can get even by just going out and buying a Blu Ray. For example, maybe the best picture quality available anywhere is from a Blu Ray that was released to the German market, but a US Blu Ray release has an extra commentary track, while the best audio track is actually from an old Laserdisc release (crazy but it's happened before). In the live action world it's pretty rare for a video track or an audio track to be spliced together from multiple sources, though it does happen. But in the anime world it's pretty common and they'll do stuff to fix picture quality issues or localize Japanese text to English on signs or whatever (and they can do it slick enough that you wouldn't even notice). The most bizarre part of all of this, though, is that people put in all this work only for the communities themselves to be small and fiercely private, meaning it could be hard for most people to actually access the end results (though the popular stuff tends to trickle out). The best place on the Internet to download movies bar none (better than all the major streaming platforms put together) is an invite only site with under 40k members that's extremely difficult to join these days. |
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| ▲ | Matticus_Rex 5 days ago | parent [-] | | What's the name of the Star Wars project? You know, so I can avoid those darn pirates more effectively. | | |
| ▲ | dddgghhbbfblk 5 days ago | parent [-] | | The one they were talking about (based on scans of original film prints) is called 4K77/4K80/4K83 for the three films. I believe the first project of this type for Star Wars was Harmy's Despecialized Edition but I think these days most people prefer the 4K77 versions, although it varies by film and by person. | | |
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| ▲ | dawnerd 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| People just don't realize just how garbage even 4k streams are from all the services. It's not in their interest to give you real bluray quality. |
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| ▲ | 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | abbycurtis33 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes! Someone came after me on here because I said there really is no 4k streaming. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I’m going to develop 8k streaming - it’s just the normal low bitrate shit, but if you pause it sends a full quality 8k frame. Nobody will figure it out! | | |
| ▲ | gmueckl 5 days ago | parent [-] | | When your source material shows fast sweeping motions you'd certainly get away with that. |
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| ▲ | dawnerd 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The marketing of a resolution really won out. People will fight you if you suggest a high bitrate 1080p encode can look better than a low bitrate 4k. | | |
| ▲ | ProfessorLayton 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Bitrate aside, the marketing stopped making sense long ago: - 720p/1080p is counting vertical pixel resolution - 4k/8k is counting horizontal pixel resolution - "4k/8k" is not actually 4,000/8,000 horizontal pixels - Suddenly the "p" becomes irrelevant (Not that most people even knew what it meant to begin with) - 720/1080/4k/8k totally disregards aspect ratio - Consumers already have a way to compare, and they're called "megapixels" - 2.1MP (1080p) and 8.3MP (4k) etc. is a lot more consumer friendly since it's already used for cameras. Marketing really won at making this a mess. | | | |
| ▲ | 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | kcb 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't know, 4k HEVC at 15,000mbps looks plenty good to me. | | |
| ▲ | 542354234235 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | And that is good for you, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you meant 15mbps, but I know I can personally tell the difference between 15mbps and 50mbps. Seeing more detailed film grain and seeing less artifacts in fast moving scenes are two of the most noticeable. | |
| ▲ | dawnerd 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Commercial 4k Blu-ray’s are twice that all the way up to 4x or sometimes more. And I’d say even on the best mastered disks there’s still obvious encoding artifacts. | |
| ▲ | buzer 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | ...what service offers 15Gbps stream? | | |
| ▲ | oguz-ismail 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | None. No matter how much you pay, the best you'll ever get from streaming services is a bit-starved encode with fake film grain in a bullshit codec that'll look worse than 720p DVD rips you'd find on Zamunda yet still require more power to decode... | |
| ▲ | kcb 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sorry my unit was wrong 15Mbps is pretty common for the highest nitrate streams |
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| ▲ | lz400 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's a bit of an edge case, powered by the absolute, lovely turbo-nerdery of a few dedicated souls. They are called 4K77 / 4K80 versions for people looking for them. |
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| ▲ | greazy 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wow. I thought it was impossible to watch the original release of star wars. I need to hunt this down. |
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| ▲ | amgutier 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | "4k77" should get you to the right places | | | |
| ▲ | nosioptar 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | There's also a DVD release of the theatrical versions. Usually goes for $50-75 for OG trilogy. | | |
| ▲ | LeifCarrotson 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | DVDs are 480i, the parent comment described far higher quality than DVD. | | |
| ▲ | pezezin 6 days ago | parent [-] | | DVDs support progressive scan and most movies were encoded in 480p; the player then just sent half the picture on one field and the other half on the other field. Your point still stand though, these modern 4k editions are far higher quality. | | |
| ▲ | scheeseman486 6 days ago | parent [-] | | The DVD releases of the original theatrical versions of Star Wars were encoded in 480i non-anamorphic, drawn from analog video masters intended for Laserdisc, which employed an early version of DNR that created a bunch of ugly temporal ghosting artifacts. Blown up onto a modern display it looks really bad. | | |
| ▲ | pezezin 6 days ago | parent [-] | | I watched the PAL edition and I don't remember those artifacts, but it was a million years ago so my memory could be wrong xD | | |
| ▲ | scheeseman486 5 days ago | parent [-] | | The PAL release was an NTSC>PAL conversion, so throw upscaling artifacts onto the pile as well. e: Actually thinking back on it, it may not even have been PAL at all, but 480i/60hz Region 2/4. There's a good chance you watched it on a CRT given that even on a flat panel LCD fom the late 2000s the low vertical resolution was quite noticeable (effectively ~272p, not counting deinterlacing artifacts from it being sourced from a video master). It looked somewhat acceptable in that context but aged very quickly once CRTs started becoming obsolete. | | |
| ▲ | pezezin 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I remembered that I borrowed the collection from my uncle and he still has it. I will ask him for pictures of the box, maybe it was the "updated" editions. | | |
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| ▲ | Dwedit 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, there was the official DVD release that included the original versions as a bonus. But the quality can not compare to 4K77. |
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| ▲ | matheusmoreira 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They release better products than trillion dollar corporations. There are piracy groups out there who are known to source frames from multiple different blu-rays in order to create the best version of a work. Imagine caring so much about something you compare different releases frame by frame in order to select the best ones so that you can splice them all together to form the highest quality ultimate version of a work. Meanwhile corporations are perfectly happy shitting out some butchered streaming slop with compression artifacts in 90% black frames. |
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| ▲ | fragmede 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Eh Stremio's episode chooser leaves a bit to be desired, when jumping back into the middle of a show. |
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| ▲ | Affric 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s great but do you know of any others? |
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| ▲ | umbra07 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Harmy's Despecialized Edition(s). | |
| ▲ | jaimex2 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | all of Star Trek Voyager | | |
| ▲ | account42 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Care to expand? I assume the result is still 480p or have they actually done more than that? | | |
| ▲ | NoGravitas 5 days ago | parent [-] | | All of the 90s Star Trek series were filmed on 35mm, but all of the post-production work (editing, SFX, etc) were done on tape, at 480p. There's no 35mm copy of the final result to scan and color-grade for a "normal" HD remaster. For the TNG remaster, what they actually did was re-do all of the post-production from the original 35mm negatives. VFX were re-composed, some were re-done in CG. They finished the TNG remaster just as streaming services were ramping up and Blu-Ray disk sales declining, and sales were disappointing given the amount of work that had to go into them. Paramount will never remaster DS9 or VOY because they don't expect to make the money back, because neither was as popular as TNG. And it's worse for DS9 and VOY because they extensively used CGI effects for things like ship battles, which were originally rendered at 480p. If the original assets could be found, they could be re-rendered, but in many cases, they would have to be fully re-created. Fans have created AI upscales which are generally better than watching the horrible 480p releases that were on Netflix and are now on Paramount+. But they are also sometimes uncannily smooth and unpleasant. | | |
| ▲ | account42 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Ugh no thanks, AI upscales are exactly what I don't want and not something that should be mentioned in the context of fan projects like the 1977 star wars restoration which take great care to restore the original content instead of hallucinating higher resolutions. My main problem is that the publicly available non-streaming releases are NOT 480p but 480i (actually even worse than that, partially interlaced and partially telecined) with horrible compression artifacts. With access to the production masters you could surely produce a better release than that. Your "never" is also a needlessly strong word - people would also have said TOS and TNG remasters would "never" happen before they did. Also keep in mind that just because a company says something is not profitable it doesn't mean that they wouldn't make the money back - it could also mean that they just wouldn't make as much profit as they would doing something else. That means that even small changes to the equation or just someone pushing for it hard enough can sometimes tip the scales. Blu-ray sales declining are also not really an argument as streaming services didn't kill production of new series either. But we were also lucky that the trek remasters we got were faithful to the originals which is not guaranteed to be the case so maybe we are better off without more remasters in the current climate. | |
| ▲ | nerdjon 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is there a name that these upscaled releases fall under to easily find them? Star Trek in particular (I was watching voyager yesterday) the quality is always pretty depressing when shown on a larger TV. Been recently thinking about trying to find the best quality I can find but it is always a lot of trial and error. But if there is a common name and tag I could look for that would be great. | | |
| ▲ | NoGravitas 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Just "<series name>", "upscale", and "complete" or "S0<n>", will work, I believe. |
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| ▲ | 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | godelski 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| While that's the best option, there's always AI upscaling and frame gen. These of course won't be as good as native resolution and can sometimes make more errors, but they can make a big difference on low resolutions when you got a big screen. |
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| ▲ | dddgghhbbfblk 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | To be blunt, upscaling is pretty shit and doesn't belong in a discussion about quality. The quality-obsessed piracy world we're talking about here would shudder at the comparison. | | |
| ▲ | godelski 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I full agree. I'm not trying to compare high quality naive source to AI upscale. That is a ludicrous comparison. Native will always be better. But truth of the matter is that many times you don't have access to a higher quality source. Sometimes you only have something that's been re-encoded over and over or something that has degraded through the passage of time. I would not suggest overwriting the source, but the truth is that many people will find this a better viewing experience. Truth is that many of those remasters will use similar technologies, though with much more thought and care than your one click and it's done act like it is magic programs. Truth is that people do enjoy it in videogames and existing streaming and movie systems. People do prefer better native high resolution, but when that is just unavailable, what are you left with? But the truth is that most people are happy with lossy encodings and lower bit color schemes (most people don't even have a 10 bit monitor and (real) HDR isn't prolific). If it is a choice between shitty quality and AI upscale, I'll choose AI upscale more times than not (but not 100%). But instead, if it is a choice between shitty quality, AI upscale, and high quality native, I'm choosing high quality naive 100% of the time. It's not even a question! But the point is that there are choices and not all of them require deep knowledge. I'm not arguing replace native with upscale, that's idiotic. But for an at home player where more people are going to have to make choices about storage spaces and won't care if it is lossy, then the option exists. We're also talking about streaming services. Streaming services force the AI upscaling on you. Hell, even in some TV's it is hard or impossible to turn off (mine turns itself back on!). Let's let people decide, because we know that the incentives are too strong on the streaming service for them to hand you raw. |
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| ▲ | wiseowise 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | While that’s the best option to eat chocolate, there’s always eating shit. If you put it in the right form it might even resemble chocolate. |
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