Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live).

I did know that recurring utility-type payments, and payments of more than a couple thousand dollars, tend not to accept credit cards or to charge a lot extra for them, presumably because it's not as costly for them to make their users eat the inconvenience of setting up ACH payments. Most merchants can't get away with that. I've also seen it for gasoline but chalked this up to gasoline being an unusually fungible and high-demand commodity.

Do you know how they're handling the American Express problem? I don't think I've noticed a big contraction in how many merchants accept it.

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lotsofpulp 6 days ago | parent [-]

> Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live)

I linked to a website that shows the federal government specifically allowing it. You can definitely get a 5% discount in your states’ Targets for paying with a debit card:

https://www.target.com/circlecard

> Do you know how they're handling the American Express problem? I don't think I've noticed a big contraction in how many merchants accept it.

It’s not a problem. Refer back to the federal legislation that prohibits payment card networks from dictating cash and debit card discounts.

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ameliaquining 6 days ago | parent [-]

Oh, this is a specific co-branded card, that's a different thing and one I've seen a bunch of places.

It seems pretty uncontroversial on the internet that American Express has this policy, and I can't find anyone alleging that Dodd–Frank prohibits it. There is a class action lawsuit against American Express alleging that the policy is illegal (https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/zdvxngqeovx/...), but it makes its argument on antitrust grounds and does not cite Dodd–Frank—which it would surely do if there were a plausible argument that Dodd–Frank prohibits this. I don't know exactly how this squares with the text of the FTC's business-guidance page, but that page is a concise summary and doesn't get into all the details of the law, so my guess is that the situations it applies to are somehow different from what American Express is doing.

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lotsofpulp 6 days ago | parent [-]

It’s not really a co branded card. They send you a Target Redcard you can ignore, but all it does is charge your debit card as usual. There is no credit check.

Your Amex lawsuit link is about Amex prohibiting different discounts based on payment card networks (see #4 at bottom of page 2).

Amex’s contract does not overrule the federal government’s rule that a merchant can offer a discount for debit and cash.

The Supreme Court upheld AmEx’s steering provisions in 2018.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_v._American_Express_Co.

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ameliaquining 6 days ago | parent [-]

Page 10: "Under Amex’s NDPs, the merchant...may not impose a 'parity surcharge' on credit card transactions, meaning a surcharge in which the merchant assesses the same surcharge amount on all credit card brands and does not surcharge debit cards at all."

	▲	lotsofpulp 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		That page is getting into the weeds, but none of that says a merchant cannot state that cash and debit cards receive an x% or $x discount. The federal regulations specifically allow discounts, and presumably some lawyers will argue that a surcharge is different from a discount. Amex is trying to do all it can, but still can’t tell a merchant they cannot advertise a discount for cash/debit.