| ▲ | splatter9859 3 days ago |
| Wow. Illumos / Solaris is still kicking, eh? Really too bad Solaris didn’t stick around and was so horribly mismanaged by Sun. Solaris and Vax/VMS is where I started my career decades ago, and still brings back memories. |
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| ▲ | steveklabnik 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| It still is! At Oxide, we have our own illumos (in my understanding, you're supposed to lowercase the i) distribution, discussed on HN a while back https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39178521 |
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| ▲ | splatter9859 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Very cool! Thanks for sharing that. I'll keep the small "i" in mind as well. :) |
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| ▲ | tracker1 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think a lot of decisions that eventually lead to the Oracle buyout were all pretty bad and Oracle itself being where good ideas go to die. As bad as MS is at extracting value out of its windows users, Oracle seems to fleece it's enterprise customers far, far worse. I don't think I would ever choose Oracle or IBM for anything. It would be interesting to see a little more diversity in common operating systems in the wild though. Linux has pretty much taken over the server space, and iOS/Android have split the more common usage outside that, with what's left of desktop still mostly Windows. I still think there's opportunity for something like Flutter as a cross-platform library that actually works with multiple backing languages. |
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| ▲ | ndiddy 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It still is, but at this point I'm not sure why anyone would pick it over Linux for something new. All the killer Solaris features (ZFS, dtrace, zones, SMF) have good enough Linux equivalents (OpenZFS, eBPF, containers, systemd) and I'm not aware of any usecases where illumos outperforms Linux anymore. OpenIndiana also has the problem that every commercial illumos user is using it for some niche purpose (networking infrastructure, storage appliance, that sort of thing) so it's basically up to a few unpaid volunteers working in their free time to adapt it for general desktop use. I'm not sure what the state of stuff like audio support or accelerated graphics looks like if you're on modern hardware. |
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| ▲ | shrubble 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’m of the opinion that the acquisition of Sun by Oracle was the worst possible outcome; it guaranteed that Solaris would decline. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Solaris was the development OS for Oracle for years. I presume that's now shifted to their own linux distro but for many years that was the case, to the point that if you were a serious Oracle customer you ran it on Solaris (and Sun hardware) because all the bug fixes and updates came out first for that platform. So from that standpoint it makes sense that they acquired it. They probably just didn't care about any non-Oracle users. | | |
| ▲ | justin66 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Solaris was the development OS for Oracle for years. I presume that's now shifted to their own linux distro I wouldn't bet on that. Their Linux distro is a RHEL clone, but they have total control over Solaris. | | |
| ▲ | tw04 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Given that they killed the roadmap and admitted there will never be a Solaris 12 after laying off 90% of the core developers - I would bet on that. https://www.zdnet.com/article/sun-set-oracle-closes-down-las... | | |
| ▲ | justin66 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Not doing another major release of doesn't exactly rule out keeping it as the reference platform for their core database product. I guess my question - I honestly have no idea and it's been years since I paid attention to Oracle or Sun's inner workings - is whether they're still developing SPARC hardware? The Google seems to say no, they've abandoned that... so I'm inclined to agree with you guys now. I don't have a ton of nostalgia left for Sun stuff, but still... what a waste. | | |
| ▲ | tw04 2 days ago | parent [-] | | SPARC hardware is also dead. Their core reference platform moved from SPARC to Linux + X86 almost a decade ago. They pushed Exadata down everyone's throat at the time with their "it'd be too bad if we have to audit you unless you buy this new hardware" approach. https://www.oracle.com/engineered-systems/exadata/ | | |
| ▲ | justin66 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm endlessly surprised that Oracle has enough customers to support them. I was familiar with the reasoning a long time ago but so many of those same users have moved on to SQL Server or open source stuff. | |
| ▲ | shrubble 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have seen some of the hardware on eBay for not much money - can they take a regular Linux or possibly OpenIndiana distro being installed on them? | | |
| ▲ | tw04 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, they’re standard x86 kit with I believe infiniband interconnects. |
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| ▲ | thevillagechief 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Still mad at IBM for screwing the pooch on that one. They basically handed the company to Oracle. | | |
| ▲ | glhaynes 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Did IBM consider purchasing Sun? | | |
| ▲ | wmf 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yes, although IBM only wanted Java and was planning to cancel SPARC and maybe Solaris. | | |
| ▲ | jeberle 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Makes sense given that IBM already had the POWER arch & AIX, which was based on BSD rather than SysV for Solaris. | |
| ▲ | whartung 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Kind of like Oracle did. | | |
| ▲ | rbanffy 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Oracle also tried to kill MySQL, with extremely amusing results. |
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| ▲ | pjmlp 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not only it is still around from Oracle, it is the only production UNIX with hardware memory tagging enabled. Sadly it is still years away on ARM and x86, Linux and BSD systems. |
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| ▲ | fanf2 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Like https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity23/presentat... ? | | |
| ▲ | pjmlp 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, except it exists since 2015, and while it is great that macOS is getting them, which I am perfectly aware of, it isn't what I meant as "Sadly it is still years away on ARM and x86, Linux and BSD systems.", because it isn't neither a Linux system, nor a regular BSD. Apple OSes don't count for the BSD group I was talking about, because they only took whatever NeXT felt like back at the time, and there have been very few updates other than those required for UNIX certification. While on Linux, you might be tempted to point out Android, however NDK alone hardly makes it a GNU/Linux system. |
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| ▲ | geephroh 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It (Solaris) was also the origin of ZFS, if I'm not mistaken. |
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| ▲ | spauldo 2 days ago | parent [-] | | And DTrace. And NFS/NIS. And SunRPC. And OpenOffice (sort of - they bought the company that made it and then open sourced it). And... you get the idea. That's what I loved about Sun, really. They strive for a leadership role in the UNIX world by actually leading, instead of just trying to dominate. No company is perfect, but Sun was better than most. I was sad to see them go, but with Windows NT taking over corporate and Linux taking over networking, they just didn't have a place. They kept pushing "The network is the computer" at a time when PCs were cheap. If only they'd held out until the cloud craze hit... |
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| ▲ | JoshTriplett 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I'm really disappointed that Solaris picked a "let's screw Linux" license, relegating some otherwise interesting technologies to only run on Solaris, on permissive OSes like BSD, and on systems that don't care about license compliance. |
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| ▲ | ptribble 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | There was nothing about screwing anyone involved in the choice of the license. The license had to be something all the copyright and license holders were prepared to accept (and getting them to accept CDDL was hard enough, not everyone did hence the few closed components). Our belief was that Linux would be unlikely (and unwise as the overall system architecture is sufficiently different that it would be hard to port) to take the code. We expected - and encouraged - the concepts to be taken (as with the slab memory allocator). | |
| ▲ | wmf 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Some Linux people were saying "let's screw Solaris" first and Sun people are only human so that's the result. | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Some Linux people were saying "let's screw Solaris" first [citation needed] | | |
| ▲ | spauldo 2 days ago | parent [-] | | It's not hard to find Linux users shit-talking Solaris - or "Slowaris" as it was known at the time. Just browse the Slashdot archives. Reaching feature parity and taking Solaris' market share was an often cited goal by people in the Linux community, and one they achieved. That said, I don't remember much actual hate directed at Sun in the way that Microsoft got. As far as companies go, Sun was a better member of the UNIX community than most. |
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