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HamsterDan 20 hours ago

Articles like this are a stark reminder of just how disconnected the internet is from reality. Survey 100 people at random and you'd be hard pressed to find a single one who would be offended if their employer partnered with the military. But the internet is filled with loudmouths who insist there's no reason to have a military and that anybody who partners with the military in any capacity is an evil fascist.

StarterPro 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are at a minimum fascist adjacent.

zachrip 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where are you getting this claim from?

Tarball10 18 hours ago | parent [-]

>Most Americans continue to express positive views of the military: 60% say it has a positive effect, while 36% say its effect is negative.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/01/the-u-s-mili...

barbazoo 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Based on those numbers I’d be surprised to not “find a single one who would be offended if their employer partnered with the military”.

qualeed 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not only does that not even come close to aligning with the original claim, as barbazoo points out, but there is also a difference between having a "positive view of the military" and wanting to partner with them at work.

dragonwriter 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

February 1, 2024

There have been some salient events that may have altered that perspective in the intervening 18 months.

OrvalWintermute 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If we hadn't gone to Iraq, Afghanistan, and supported the Israelis, I imagine these numbers would be much higher with the young.

esseph 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hacker culture is and has always been anti-fascist and anti-capitalist by nature, at least the version that grew in the west. It was an offshoot of hippie culture in the 60s, grew in the 80s phreaking scene, and highly entangled with open source in the early to mid 90s.

drdrek 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think anti Fascist is way too narrow, it's anti establishment, any establishment period. Anything anyone with power does is bad, that's the mentality for 50 years.

esseph 8 hours ago | parent [-]

You know what, the more I think about this, I think you're onto something.

dogman144 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, it is often missed but hippies are at hacker cultures core, in terms of the root file directory. John Perry Barlow’s resume shows it all.

saintjavelina 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thanks for another stark reminder of how comments here are disconnected from reality. Most IRL are tired of people who call everything fascist and froth at the mouth about “anti-fascism.”

esseph 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This very much mirrors the scenes I grew up with in the late 80s and through the 90s, early 2000s.

I just checked and there's still an old .gif image in the center of one of the websites with an upraised red fist.

A lot of those folks are security researchers, CISOs, network engineers, and software devs now.

zevon 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Let me assure you that the population that you will find at Congress is rather anti-fascist. And so is the constitution of country where the event happens. As far as I remember from a few side-notes in my history classes, there are a few historic reasons for that. One may go so far as to call those reasons pretty stark reminders of why anti-fascism is a good thing...

saintjavelina 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah this is exactly the sort of anti-historical menacing puffery I was talking about. The vast majority of polled WW2 GIs were against racial integration and homosexuality and in favor of white supremacy by the way. Somehow I don’t think they’d fit your idea of “anti-fascist.” Neither them nor the literal fasces on the wall in the US Senate.

ixtli 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly: we live in a capitalist society which has been in decline into fascism for generations which makes the counter culture the opposite of those things.

I get the sense that because people can think of a few examples of mercenary security people or a few white supremacist groups that "hack" that this is somehow a refutation. It's not. You know about these people because 1) they usually are mean and suck and 2) they are outliers.

As you say: the phreaking / hacking / hobbist subcultures have always been collectivist by nature and the product of those subcultures will always chafe at the profit motive.

ThrowawayR2 16 hours ago | parent [-]

The considerable number of libertarians and anarchists among the old-school hackers would probably be rather surprised to hear themselves described as collectivist.

GuinansEyebrows 11 hours ago | parent [-]

anarchism as a philosophy is obsessed with non-hierarchical collectivism. same with libertarianism, at least by the common definition of the term outside the united states (it often carries a leftist sentiment in other places).

anonfordays 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hacker culture is and has always been anti-Marxist and anti-Communist by nature, at least the version that grew in the west. It was an offshoot of hippie culture in the 60s, grew in the 80s phreaking scene, and highly entangled with libertarian open source in the early to mid 90s.

ixtli 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This isnt anywhere near my experience at all. People don't like empire and if you look around your life and think everyone you see would be pleased to do military contracts you're in a ( really disconcerting ) bubble.

busterarm 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Everyone living in a western nation today is a direct beneficiary of empire.

Ask them to swap their standard of living with that of someone living without the influence of empire and you'll get nothing but hard stares.

esseph 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Now realize there are 8 billion people on the planet, and the 95.6% of people are... really tired, and really upset with the 4.4% of that empire.

busterarm 14 hours ago | parent [-]

So you only care about one specific empire then. Got it.

OrvalWintermute 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The US federal budget goes to:

(based on FY 2025 budget proposal )

category, billions, % of federal spending

Social Security 1,543 21.2%

Medicare 936 12.9%

Medicaid 589 8.1%

Food Stamps (SNAP) 94 1.3%

WIC 8 0.1%

Section 8 33 0.5%

Defense 900 12.4%

Other Entitlement Programs 1,168 16.1%

Other Agencies (Non-Defense Discretionary) 1,029 14.2%

lesuorac 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Where's interest payments?

Based on their omission I assume you're computing these numbers with them split out but it hardly seems fair to say you're spending "900" on defense when the total cost of paying that "900" is going to be much more since you had to borrow.

It's like saying a house only costs 1M when you end up paying over 1M in interest as well as the principal for 2M.

OrvalWintermute 16 hours ago | parent [-]

oops....

Net_Interest $965 billion, 13.3%

bigyabai 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

250 years ago, every American was a beneficiary of slavery too. Help remind me how that one ended, will you?

anonym29 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think this is your point, but semantically, doesn't this necessarily assert that either:

1. African Americans were not Americans, or

2. African Americans, the victims of slavery, somehow benefited from it?

I would disagree with both of those assertions.

Further, consider that a vast majority (90%+) did not own slaves. Were non-slave-owners beneficiaries of slavery? What about poor, unskilled whites, who had their own wages effectively suppressed due to the negligible labor costs of slavery - were they really net beneficiaries of slavery? They certainly were not the main victims, but that doesn't automatically make them beneficiaries, either. Slavery was overwhelmingly a horrific practice by wealthy elites for wealthy elites, not by all white people for all white people.

saintjavelina 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

busterarm 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It ended with one half of a country being so mad about their standard of living changing that they had a bloody civil war about it. You're proving my point entirely.

I was never talking about right or wrong, I was talking about whether people are willing to sacrifice their standard of living substantially just to be "right" about something.

saintjavelina 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

420official 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sure, I can agree that companies using gender dysphoria as only a way to increase profit is a bad thing, and I recognize that pharmaceutical companies are this way with _every_ drug and not just ones that benefit people. However I do disagree with the idea that people should be stripped of their right to free speech if you disagree with their statements, or stripped of their right to choose how to live their own lives.

I would offer that this is entirely different than the lack of choice we have in regard to how our government uses the military to "spread democracy at the point of a gun" while taking more and more of our tax dollars and liberty without improving our lives or tackling the problems that ordinary Americans face.

lux-lux-lux 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What on earth are you talking about?

saintjavelina 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Using one egregious example to illustrate how those who ID as “anti-fascist” love imperial coercion, totalitarian speech controls, and the state’s destruction of families and bodies when it suits their particular perversion. Everyone loves centralized power when it promulgates and protects what they actually care about.