I think the parent poster didn't imply that TKL keyboads are intrinsically superior (on the other hand, unless your task is in the 1% benefiting from a keypad.... they kind of are IMHO, at least they're more portable and don't waste space on a desk), but rather described 2 possible attributes of better keyboards, not necessarily related.

On laptops, usually a keypad is an automatic indicator of a terrible product meant for the less knowledgeable audience. The keypad causes the rest of the keyboard to be squished to the left, with the hands now shifted off center and closer than normal. Awful experience every time.

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nottorp 3 days ago | parent [-]

> don't waste space on a desk

That has always baffled me. If you're using a computer professionally you have at least two monitors... and even one is as wide as a full sized keyboard or wider.

Not to mention that TKLs tend to also squeeze the arrow keys and the other navigation keys.

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mindslight 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The rest of the desk is for things and papers being worked on. Or more realistically, piles of "do this real soon".

But to me the real point of a TKL (87%) is to avoid having a dead space between your right typing hand and the rodent. If I were the type of person who wanted a numpad, I'd get a separate one and either put it to the right of the rodent, or to the left of the main keyboard.

But what I really want is more macro/F-keys. I use them to switch between desktops/windows, and 12 is just not enough. But I don't know if I've even seen a modern keyboard with even one extra row, never mind just stacking several more rows up top.

I'm finally going to try doing something about this. I've got a few of those cheap 4x6 keypads coming, as well as a 75% ortholinear (which is really just a fancy name for a 5x15 keypad, at least the one I'm getting with all 1u keys). I'm thinking the 4x6 keypads up top, and then maybe the 75% turned 90 degrees to the lefthand side of the main keyboard, for one continuous macropad surface? We'll see.

(FWIW I don't rely on the "home row" to touch type, so YMMV)

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nottorp 3 days ago | parent [-]

> is to not put a dead space between your right typing hand and the rodent

I suppose it depends on what the work is and your style. I tend to drive my IDEs from the keyboard. That of course means I want my PgUp PgDown Home End full size and not cramped.

The mouse is for circle strafing and then my right hand stays on the rodent.

	▲	gruturo 3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		In both this comment and the previous one you describe issues which do not exist on a TenKeyLess keyboard. You must be confusing TKL with other layouts. On a TKL setup, the arrow keys are not cramped, they're full size and precisely where they're supposed to be. The PgUp PgDown Home End (and Ins-Del, since that's the rest of that 6-key block) are full size and not cramped, and also precisely where they're supposed to be.
	▲	mindslight 3 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		TenKeyLess / 87% refers to keyboards missing the numpad, but otherwise full size. For example, I'm typing this from a Coolmaster Novatouch. The gap between Backspace/Insert and F12/PrintScr might be a little narrower on this particular model? But otherwise it's a standard size keyboard, just missing the numpad. And If anything, the lack of the numpad makes PgUp PgDown even easier to register to, as they're right at the edge.
	▲	nottorp 3 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> The mouse is for circle strafing and then my right hand stays on the rodent. Hmm do the newer 4x games still allow unit movement from the numpad? Of course with a hex map you don't have enough directional keys on there, but it could probably be done. Don't have any Civ installed atm so I can't check easily.

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frostburg 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You're probably thinking of a 75%, which is a questionable layout, yes. A typical TKL keyboard is spaced like a fullsize, just without the numpad cluster.

Smaller layouts (even 40%) have their advantages in minimizing how much you have to move your hands and fingers but there are tradeoffs (and a learning curve due to the necessary layers in the smallest ones).