>its institutionalization has become pathological.

any examples? because i am hard pressed to find it.

A lot of companies I know have "kindness/empathy" in their value or even promote it as part of the company philosophy to the point it has already become a cliché (and so new companies explicitly avoid to put it explicitly)

I can say also a lot of DEI trainings were about being empathic to the minorities.

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ACow_Adonis 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Well yes, but that's not actually empathy. Empathy has to be felt by an actual person. Indeed its literally the contrary/opposite case. They have to emphasise it specifically because they are reacting to the observation that they, as a giant congregate artificial profit-seeking legally-defined entity as opposed to a real one, are incapable of feeling such.

Do you also think that family values are ever present at startups that say we're like a family? It's specifically a psychological and social conditioning response to try to compensate for the things they're recognised as lacking...

	▲	allan_s 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yes hence why it's an example of >its institutionalization has become pathological.

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bmicraft 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But the problem there isn't empathy as a value, the problem is that is comes across as very clearly fake in most cases

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blackqueeriroh 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wait, hold on.

1) the word is “empathetic,” not “empathic.” 2) are you saying that people should not be empathetic to minorities?

Do you know why that is what’s taught in DEI trainings? I’m serious: do you have even the first clue or historical context for why people are painstakingly taught to show empathy to minorities in DEI trainings?

	▲	allan_s 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		You know I can explain why a murderer has killed someone in her twisted system of value without myself adhering to said system Also don't be so harsh on interpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's not the job of a company to "train" about moral value, while bring itself amoral by definition. Why are you interpreting that as me saying "nobody should teach moral value" Also I don't see why as a French working in France, a French company should "train" me with a DEI focused on US history (US minorities are not French one) just because the main investors are US-based

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kergonath 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> A lot of companies I know have "kindness/empathy" in their value or even promote it as part of the company philosophy to the point it has already become a cliché (and so new companies explicitly avoid to put it explicitly)

That’s purely performative, though. As sincere as the net zero goals from last year that were dropped as soon as Trump provided some cover. It is not empathy, it is a façade.

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terminalshort 5 days ago | parent [-]

I think that's what he means when he says

> its institutionalization has become pathological.

Empathy isn't strong for people you don't know personally and near nonexistent for people you don't even know exist. That's why we are just fine with buying products made my near slave labor to save a bit of money. It's also why those cringe DEI trainings can never rise above the level of performative empathy. Empathy just isn't capable of generating enough cohesion in large organizations and you need to use the more rational and transactional tool of incentive alignment of self interest to corporate goals. But most people have trouble accepting that sort of lever of control on an emotional level because purely transactional relationships feel cold and unnatural. That's why you get cringe attempts to inject empathy into the corporate world where it clearly doesn't belong.

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blackqueeriroh 5 days ago | parent [-]

Oh lord, not you too.

Do you have any knowledge of history and why there would be mandatory DEI trainings teaching people how to show empathy towards minorities?

Please, come on. Tell me this isn’t the level of quality in humanity we have today.

	▲	frumplestlatz 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		I know the historical rationale that’s cited, but DEI trainings aren’t neutral history lessons or empathy-building exercises. They’re rooted in an unfalsifiable, quasi-religious ideology that assigns moral worth by group identity, rewrites history to fit its narrative, and enforces compliance rather than fostering genuine understanding. Since they also function as a jobs program for those willing to find and punish ideological deviance, they incentivize division — a prime example of pathological institutionalized empathy.

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frumplestlatz 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There is no end of examples. The first that comes to mind is the “Dear Colleague” letter around Title IX that drove colleges to replace evidence-based adjudication with deference to subjective claims and gutted due process on college campuses for over a decade.

Another is the push to eliminate standardized testing from admissions.

Or the “de-incarceration” efforts that reduce or remove jail time for extremely serious crimes.

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blackqueeriroh 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

WAIT. Do you know why de-incarceration is a program? Do you have any idea?

It’s because the evidence says overwhelmingly that incarceration is a substandard way to induce behavior change, and that removing people from incarceration and providing them with supportive skills training has a much, much higher rate of reducing recidivism and decreasing violence.

	▲	frumplestlatz 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		The evidence does not overwhelmingly say that. Empathy-biased thinking says that.

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spankalee 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What do any of those things have to do with empathy?

	▲	frumplestlatz 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		All three replaced impartial rules with empathy-driven bias.