My web app works great on Android, but will never work on iOS because they refuse to implement APIs I need, and they won't let anyone else implement a browser with the APIs either.

I refuse to pay Apple and buy their hardware to be able to develop a native app for their walled-garden platform, where they can then further extort me for any money my users spend through the app I create.

And the DOJ agrees with me, which is why they are suing Apple for abusive business practices.

▲

JustExAWS 6 days ago | parent [-]

Your web app is statistically irrelevant. If PWAs were so much better on Android, then why do companies still make Android apps and web apps?

Well, one reason is that most Android phones being sold are so underpowered that you have to make a native app to get decent performance. Facebook for one found out early on that it couldn’t get away with just having an app that was a web wrapper because of low end Android devices.

So where are all of the great groundbreaking popular web apps?

And saying the current US government is in agreement with you about anything isn’t the positive thing you seem to be implying it is…

▲

goosejuice 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

The vast majority of what people use a phone for works perfectly fine as a PWA on cheap hardware.

Apple is essentially responsible for the shit show that is react native, flutter and all the other cross platform crap. Just let us build for the web with basic support for a native like experience. Works fine on every platform but iOS and iPadOS.

I as a small business don't want to write three separate fucking apps. I don't want to charge customers more to cover that. It's a waste of everyone's time and money.

▲

JustExAWS 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

If it’s just Apple, then why are most companies still releasing Android apps.

So Apple is now responsible for the shit show of current web development and at the same time isn’t keeping up or doesn’t care about the web? Which is it?

I could swear that the two most popular web frameworks over the years either came from Google or Facebook.

How praytell is Apple responsible for Google’s Flutter - that they also have basically abandoned.

And run once run anywhere has never worked in the history of the industry.

	▲	goosejuice 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		> So Apple is now responsible for the shit show of current web development and at the same time isn’t keeping up or doesn’t care about the web? Which is it? Yes. Apple, who once promoted the web as a distribution model, changed course once they realized that doing so would lead to less revenue. They have been actively hostile to open web standards and PWAs as a distribution model. https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/did-apple-just-break-web-... https://proton.me/blog/apple-lawsuit > And run once run anywhere has never worked in the history of the industry. Yet it works pretty damn well on the web.

▲

leptons 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You get it. It's expensive to develop for iOS (or multiple native apps), and on top of that, once you do get into their app store, you pay Apple a significant percentage of any purchases made through the app, as well as the possibility that Apple will steal your idea and add it to their OS as they have done in the past. Fuck all that noise, when web apps are perfectly capable, secure, and the only thing stopping them is Apple's greed.

▲

JustExAWS 4 days ago | parent [-]

If that’s the case, why do companies bother about making Android apps?

	▲	leptons 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		Not even reading your response. You really don't need to reply. I'm just going to give you canned response from here on out because I'm not wasting any more of my time with an Apple shill.

▲

leptons 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>Your web app is statistically irrelevant.

So you think I'm the only person who ever had this problem? The DOJ apparently disagrees with you.

>Well, one reason is that most Android phones being sold are so underpowered that you have to make a native app to get decent performance.

Bullshit. It has nothing to do with performance, it has everything to do with Apple's abusive business practices not allowing any other web view on their platform, and purposely hobbling their browser for anti-competitive greedy business reasons.

>So where are all of the great groundbreaking popular web apps?

So where are your goalposts moving next?

>And saying the current US government is in agreement with you about anything isn’t the positive thing you seem to be implying it is…

I didn't say the current US government, the DOJ under the previous administration is the one that filed the charges against Apple. But I know you aren't arguing in good faith, so maybe we should just agree to disagree.

▲

JustExAWS 6 days ago | parent [-]

Those were always my goalposts - web apps sucked when Microsoft tried to do it with Windows CE, RIM tried to do it, Palm and even Apple. They suck on mobile, electron apps sucked, etc

If the only reason web apps aren’t on iPhones is because of Safari and if there are other browser engines available for Android and Chrome is so much better, wouldn’t you expect to see great PWAs on Android? Especially with it being 70% of the world wide market?

> Bullshit. It has nothing to do with performance, it has everything to do with Apple's abusive business practices not allowing any other web view on their platform, and purposely hobbling their browser for anti-competitive greedy business reasons.

It doesn’t have anything to do with performance of iOS devices that’s true - because Apple doesn’t make any devices with substandard hardware with bad browser performance. But there are plenty of crappy Android device (most of them by sales volume) that do have subpar hardware performance.

But native apps are more performant than web based apps and web wrappers. Are you denying that?

> I didn't say the current US government, the DOJ under the previous administration is the one that filed the charges against Apple. But I know you aren't arguing in good faith, so maybe we should just agree to disagree.

One of us haven’t checked to see what the DOJ’s complaints are about - none of which are alternate browser engines…

▲

leptons 6 days ago | parent [-]

>web apps sucked when Microsoft tried to do it with Windows CE, RIM tried to do it, Palm

Wow, that's quite the reach. Again, bad faith.

>wouldn’t you expect to see great PWAs on Android?

I do, YMMV. I even created one myself. But again, bad faith from you.

>because Apple doesn’t make any devices with substandard hardware

"You're holding it wrong" proves you wrong.

>that do have subpar hardware performance.

None of this is about a hardware dick-measuring contest, but you sure are trying to move the goalposts that way. Again, bad faith from you.

>But native apps are more performant than web based apps and web wrappers. Are you denying that?

This is another logical fallacy. I'm done with you, you're comments are not grounded in anything except your hatred of anything not Apple.

>One of us haven’t checked to see what the DOJ’s complaints are about - none of which are alternate browser engines…

Again, just more bullshit from you.

"The complaint also alleges that Apple’s conduct extends beyond these examples, affecting web browsers, video communication, news subscriptions, entertainment, automotive services, advertising, location services, and more. Apple has every incentive to extend and expand its course of conduct to acquire and maintain power over next-frontier devices and technologies."

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...

The "affecting web browsers" part is exactly the thing I described.

Apple already lost that exact thing in Europe, because Europe sued them for it too, and now you can use alternative browser engines on iOS in Europe. Apple's going to lose that one in the US too.

You really don't need to reply. I'm just going to give you canned response from here on out because I'm not wasting any more of my time with an Apple shill.

▲

JustExAWS 5 days ago | parent [-]

So you have magically become the first person in history who has created a web app that is just as performant as a native app with local assets, written in a language that is compiled down to assembly and delivered as such (iOS) or even close enough in the case of Android native apps these days (yes I know Java has come a long way, that’s just the point)?

You should be working for Facebook or Google, they both came to the conclusion that their apps should use native frameworks for performance reasons…

It very much is about hardware. Most Android phones suck statistically (yes I know there are some performant ones. But that’s not what most of the world is buying) and your web app is not going to perform well on them.

By the way, what’s the ARR on your web app? Monthly active users? Have you tested it on one of the low end free phones?

And it’s not me being an Apple shill, your web app probably sucks like every other web app that has ever existed on mobile. I wouldn’t say the same about a native Android app.

	▲	leptons 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		Not even reading your response. You really don't need to reply. I'm just going to give you canned response from here on out because I'm not wasting any more of my time with an Apple shill.