> you have the problem that you are never able to do coder.Health++ for bank.Money-- afterwards.

Can you expound on this for me? This rule is not at all obvious to me. I'm curious what perspective this hails from :)

For example, most of my career, I will take 6+ months off between particularly intense work crunches for contracts/startups/jobs. I find the time off restorative to the point where I get restless for the next crunch.

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cookiengineer 7 days ago | parent [-]

> I find the time off restorative to the point where I get restless for the next crunch.

That is a sign of addiction, not a sign of balance.

The issues I have with this "crunching it" mentality now (post-burnouts) is that even with some time off afterwards you'll pay the price with physical health.

Just the heart issues alone that you'll get because of the absurd and constant stress levels are now for me an indicator that it's not worth it.

A company doesn't give a damn about you. They are not your family. The first sign of risk they'll ditch you. Devs need to see work as what it is: it's a contract with mutual expectations.

And my recommendation is to self-reflect more on the health part, because we (including me) tend to rationalize that it's worth working more for the sake of building something or for the interesting research parts, or for learning experience or whatever we make up to justify it.

You can do that still with basic income. We just can't because society is fucked up, and research and development isn't paid enough to make a living and a healthy life. I also think that huge parts of the open source community that I identify myself with on a moral level are pretty hypocritical, considering that only the top notch famous "leaders" make enough to have a good balanced life. The 99%+ majority doesn't make enough to even rent a flat, and that's the absurd part of our society. I still can't fathom how the richest companies have money laying around on their bank accounts, and were built on the shoulders of unpaid open source contributors that got nothing in return.

That is something I really don't understand because it's honestly really messed up if you think about it.

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schmookeeg 7 days ago | parent [-]

Thank you for expounding, but man, I have so many "wait, what? who?" reactions to that narrative.

I'm addicted to coding, not work. I know this because I've tried other jobs, even in late career, and they sucked in comparison and brought me no joy.

"The company" is mine, so yeah, probably it doesn't care about me, but it's definitely not dropping me without consent. :)

48, soon 49, heart still going. Not even sure what that's referring to. I don't feel stressed in these crunches, I feel excited! I build cool shit! They pay me to build cool shit! They pay me way too much to build cool shit!

I guess I don't know what I would balance that excitement with. I have cool hobbies too, and those have their place, but... I just don't resonate with your take and view on the industry.

IF someone hated coding, creating, or the tech industry itself -- then I could squint and get behind your balance suggestions. For them. :)

Thanks for sharing the perspective though. If nothing else, you're fanning my gratitude flame.

	▲	cookiengineer 7 days ago \| parent [-]
		Don't get me wrong, I still love to code, and I still work on open source projects and I still believe in a future where sharing of mutual contributions lead to a better outcome for everyone. That's not my point. I also am building up my own company for the last couple years. But I want it to be a sustainable company that promotes a healthy lifestyle and that doesn't overwork its employees, and one that doesn't aim for 2 years turnover/rehiring of staff...because I think these are the typical effects of a toxic work environment, and reflects the values I don't agree with, both on a personal and a professional level. In the end we both have a different leading style, I guess!?