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dlcarrier 6 days ago

I'm okay with academia being an institution of the elite, as long as we stop pretending that their BS (or BA) will make everyone successful. We can't all be elite; that's not how that works.

Rich people are going to waste their time and money no matter what, but I didn't want them also wasting yours and mine. The man-hours and percent of the GDP (often paid for with taxes) we put into conflating cause and effect is absurd.

We dodn't need merit-base academia, we need merit-based employment that disregards elite and academic status.

SoftTalker 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

When a Bachelor's degree became a proxy for "can show up and complete assigned work" for employers that was the start of its decline as an academic credential.

dlcarrier 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

First it went from "comes from money and has no need to work, whatsoever" thorough "eventually needs to get a job but can live off rich parents for four plus years" before the current state.

Economists call it costly signaling. The more elite of a status it signals, the costlier it can be, but with guaranteed student loans, the economics of it have become so separated that as the eliteness of a bachelor's degree has gone down, the costliness has gone up.

qingcharles 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Right. It's like "this person likely has a student loan they need to repay so they will probably come to work."

delfinom 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's already happening with technical/trade/alternate school to career paths are rising up and some colleges are panicking with declining enrollment.

I am on a co-op board here in NY, pretty much all our young buyers the last 2 years are all gen-Z who went the non-college route and have saved up more than enough to put a downpayment on a home for themselves and have a mortgage instead of college debt.

__turbobrew__ 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Almost every gen-Z I have met who owns a house got a loan from the bank of mommy and daddy.

You pull back the veneer and you find out that mom put down $50k on the house. There was a new coffee shop nearby to me and it had a really cool space, warehouse type, and I was talking to the young owner how cool their business is until they divulged that the space belongs to their dad - ok I guess daddy is just throwing money at you to keep you busy.

With the gap between capital income and labor income widening, it is becoming more difficult to obtain capital with your income at a young age.

dehrmann 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How did they save for the down payment? The ROI for college isn't what it used to be, but there isn't a clear non-college path in the US, either.

fzeroracer 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> pretty much all our young buyers the last 2 years are all gen-Z who went the non-college route and have saved up more than enough to put a downpayment on a home for themselves and have a mortgage instead of college debt.

Really? How much money did they start with versus how much they earned via working? This feels like a bit of burying the lede here.

WalterBright 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Rich people are going to waste their time and money no matter what

You don't become rich by wasting time and money.

iancmceachern 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Statistically you do exactly this if you, or your family already are. It's called the "Third generation curse"

WalterBright 5 days ago | parent [-]

Right, which is why I wrote "become" :-)

iancmceachern 4 days ago | parent [-]

Yes, but your forgot "self-made". It's possible to "become" rich by inheritance, lottery, etc.

dlcarrier 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly my complaint

Just because rich people waste their time and money with academia, it doesn't mean anyone can become rich, just by wasting time and money on academia.

DonHopkins 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You do by wasting other people's time and money.

thrown-0825 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

lmao heard of DOGE?

w10-1 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> we need merit-based employment that disregards elite and academic status

We effectively already have middle management being used to school elites; they get tours in various companies in the network, which means they build impressive resumes that would "win" any competition based on merit/success history.

Indeed, this may be necessary: the baseline investors committed to a company keep all the free riders on board through growth volatility. Is it too much to show their people the ropes?

It may be necessary, but it's probably self-destructive: foreign investors are often most interested in new technologies, not to profit from them, but to learn enough to compete. So they'll out-bid investors without such strategic aims. They're very much aligned with open-source, because their people leave with knowledge and the company is left without IP protections.

So... it's complicated. Going all-"merit" helped with civil service in the 1870's - 1950's, but people learned any system can be gained, and we can no longer afford slack-maximizing.

corimaith 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When you are brokering deals with wealthy clients or executing trades with millions, the notion of trust is much more important than merit. And what better is a sign of trust that coming from the circles, and with nothing to stake but reputation?

JKCalhoun 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How likely is it we'll have the one when we don't even have the other?

We'll have neither, of course. The wealthy will always be able to pay for what they want — merit be damned.

wnc3141 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree that participation in the middle class shouldn't depend on borrowing six figures as a teenager. I dream of the day where any worker has economic security

musicale 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"It is good sense to appoint individual people to jobs on their merit. It is the opposite when those who are judged to have merit of a particular kind harden into a new social class without room in it for others."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy