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t1234s 4 days ago

In the US insurance (of all types: car, house, health) is a major expense and only getting worse.

jvanderbot 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'm a fairly well to do/employable person, and so is my wife. Together, we should be all kinds of financially stable.

But the two largest costs to our finances are ridiculously outsized: Child Care and Health Care. We pay more for our children and health insurance / care, than our house + cars (+student loans) combined.

These seem like two areas where intervention is not only possible but likely to help just about everyone. And, if those are solved, I wonder if this "fertility crisis" I keep hearing about goes away too.

pbmonster 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> But the two largest costs to our finances are ridiculously outsized: Child Care and Health Care.

I thought the same thing. We pay 5.5k for two kids per month.

But then I looked at the regulations on professional child care. You need one certified worker and 250 sq.ft. of indoor space (in an expensive city) per 4 kids. After professional insurance, healthcare and other ancillary wage costs, there's really not that much left for the salary of that worker.

So I guess I understand the price of childcare. I support it, even. I don't want my kids to be looked after by a stressed out carer on minimum wage looking after 10 kids at once.

If we want to lower the cost of childcare, the only option would be billions in subsidies. Might make a dent in the fertility crisis.

potato3732842 4 days ago | parent [-]

>We pay 5.5k for two kids per month

You can pay a fraction of that if you're ok with you paying cash and then learning Spanish. It won't have any of the administrative/compliance bloat either, if you catch my drift.

>the only option would be billions in subsidies.

<gestures at the above option I just described>

pbmonster 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I kind of like the compliance. It comes with infant first aid courses and theory in child education, psychology and nutrition. Meals are prepared from scratch. I'm sure it's much more than strictly necessary, but that's much better than to little compliance.

I also really like that the pros give the strict guarantee of 0 minutes of screen time - both for the kids and the ladies who watch them. I'm going full Luddite for the kids, having a nanny backdooring that effort seems like a bad idea...

klooney 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There's a huge "not grey market" tax for everything from childcare to construction

bombcar 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's a "middle class dip" where one spouse working barely makes enough to cover the increased costs from child care and other incidentals (like eating out more often).

The poor either have a non-working spouse or get subsidized child care, and the rich don't know what a banana costs.

Aurornis 4 days ago | parent [-]

Many of my parent friends have gone through the debate about having the lesser-earning parent quit work for a few years to care for children or to pay for daycare.

In the long run remaining employed generally comes out ahead due to the continued career growth and employment.

The one friend who quit their job now regrets a little because the expensive early childcare years were over quickly and now they’re trying to get back into the workforce in a rough economy with a resume gap.

bombcar 4 days ago | parent [-]

The resume gap issue is why many never return (which may be a better life overall, hard to say, life isn't only financial decisions).

One option is to keep working at reduced hours/ad hoc, if such is available.

bix6 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Curious where you live that healthcare is more than housing?

lotsofpulp 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Health insurance premiums are $500 to $2,000 per person per month in the US (price goes up with age). Annual out of pocket maximums are usually $5k to $15k (varies based on individual or family plan). Annual deductibles are usually $2k or may even just match the annual out of pocket maximumum.

A family of four can easily be spending $30k in premiums plus a couple thousand in out of pocket expenses per year.

This info can be found by searching reports from KFF, or checking prices on healthcare.gov

And while many people’s employers pay for a large portion of the premium, the cost still exists, they just don’t receive it in their bank account first before paying it to the insurer.

jvanderbot 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Childcare + Healthcare is more than housing.

Healthcare alone would be more than the house we had before this one.

bix6 4 days ago | parent [-]

Ah the combo I see. So if someone is also renting or paying a mortgage they’re toast.

phkahler 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In the US if you don't own your home free and clear this is likely the case.

seanmcdirmid 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If they are paying out of pocket for health insurance, it’s definitely possible.

emushack 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

My childcare + healthcare is nearly 3x my house payment.

hombre_fatal 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Vehicles in general.

In Houston, I share a car with my girlfriend since I work from home. But some days I don't feel very independent when I want to run an errand while she's at work.

I'll look up the price of a used Corolla and think about all the additional expenses, and I'm immediately disabused of the idea.

Instead, I decided to book some motorcycle lessons so I can use a $3000 moto. But then I need to pay for life insurance!

potato3732842 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Insurance is the problem.

Like it's not even close. I pay about the same per mile for it as I do fuel (!!!!). The cost of my shitty cars is a rounding error. Tires are a rounding error. And my driving record is squeaky clean for close to a decade now. I'm sure they're screwing me for being a statistical contradiction (high income, not diverse, lives in zip code and drives cars opposite of that) because insurance generally hates anything that doesn't conform to the fat parts of the bell curve but it's still insane.

The story on the house side of things is similar. You add in health and the sum total of insuring my life is within spitting distance of my mortgage. I could shove the money into bonds and in all but the worst cases come out ahead, pick stocks and the comparison gets even worse.

SkyPuncher 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't have to be a expensive. Buy an older cheaper car, don't put comprehensive insurance on it. If you don't drive it much, there's really not that much maintenance work. Pretty much just an annual oil change.

I have an old jeep that I use for local driving. Bought it for about $5k. I live in Michigan, where insurance premiums are top 5 in the nation. I pay $60/month for insurance. Probably could get it lower with a bit more shopping around.

Total maintenance has been $150 for a set of used tires that will dry-rot before I kill the rest of the tread.

hombre_fatal 4 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, good point. My friend just sent me this: https://dzautocenter.com/ (cheap used cars, Houston)

I'll get a $6000 Mazda this weekend and put liability insurance on it. Now I can stop moping around on HN. I'll miss it though.

justin66 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Instead, I decided to book some motorcycle lessons so I can use a $3000 moto. But then I need to pay for life insurance!

Don't forget disability insurance. And fill out your organ donation card!

rconti 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're not really going to come out ahead on a $3000 motorcycle. Factor in gear, maintenance (more intensive per mile than a corolla), and it's hard to make the math work. You have to enjoy riding.

In Houston, I wouldn't even consider a vehicle without A/C!

positr0n 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What is the purpose of life insurance or you have no kids (or dependent parents/spouse I suppose)?

I guess to pay for your funeral costs if cashing out all your savings and possessions wouldn't cover that?

pengaru 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Motorcycles are better at making your cost of living permanently higher via serious injury than any minor cost savings over automobiles.

aka penny-wise pound-foolish

They are a lot of fun though (I rode a liter bike for years)

t1234s 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

In Florida there are "Lottery Winner" style billboards everywhere for auto accident lawyers and other ambulance chasers. This is what helps keep insurance premiums high for everyone and unless you are flat-broke. Good luck gambling not having enough insurance.

selimthegrim 4 days ago | parent [-]

Louisiana too.