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olieidel 6 days ago

While rather sarcastic, your comment does hit an interesting point: How much does the infrastructure and society of any given state contribute to the "building" of a company?

I'd argue that, for software companies, not very much; at least if you contrast it with a hardware company. If you're, say, forging steel, you're using roads, trains, a lot of electricity, you've got an industrial plant, worker unions, public accident insurance, etc., etc. - a significant chunk of state-associated infrastructure is a part of your business, and was a part of your business when you built it.

But for software companies? I mean, you need a stable internet connection, good mobile phone coverage (tricky in Germany sometimes), rule of law, efficient bureaucracy (e.g. when hiring people), good banks which don't lose your money, electricity, etc. - none of these "infrastructure factors" feel as big as the ones for a hardware business.

On the contrary, for a software business, one could argue that Germany is actively hostile to you: Founding a company takes weeks / months and is expensive (notary), most processes are still paper-based, hiring people (especially internationally) is a huge pain, mobile internet is spotty, residential internet has outages. Charging customer credit cards via Stripe exposes you to a rabbit hole of VAT bureaucracy - all companies I've met so far rolled their own, broken software stack to somehow match up their Stripe + VAT charges with their internal bookkeeping software (e.g. Datev). A huge mess. It doesn't end there.

But I may be wrong.

mensetmanusman 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

You need peace, law enforcement, trust in others to lower stress and increase creativity, good teachers and education.

Someone growing up in a society is strongly an outcome of that society.

caseysoftware 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

> You need peace, law enforcement, trust in others to lower stress and increase creativity, good teachers and education.

This is a great point.

The flip side is that if a government fails to deliver those, they have failed their side of the social contract. Then ideally, the citizens they've failed should be able to opt out..

olieidel 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What about a software company founded in Germany by someone who grew up in another country, and accordingly got their education elsewhere?

What if that company is a remote company which hires people all over the world, and none of those people benefited from the {education|peace|law enforcement|trust} in Germany?

I do agree with you, in principle, that a company is somewhat coupled to the country it was founded in. The exact nature of that coupling, however, is not that simple, I would say.

Reality is complicated, I suppose :)

EndsOfnversion 6 days ago | parent [-]

Lets drop you into the mid Cretaceous period and see how far your education takes you.

Without the contributions of millions of others on a daily basis you’d have nothing.

FredPret 6 days ago | parent [-]

In business, you pay for those contributions.

Milton Friedman describes how a pencil is made with the self-coordinated efforts of millions of people around the globe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67tHtpac5ws

opo 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

For those unaware, the original essay "I, Pencil" was written by Leonard Read:

https://fee.org/ebooks/i-pencil/

EndsOfnversion 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Dinosaurs don’t take credit cards

cherryteastain 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I'd argue that, for software companies, not very much

If you build any successful business, including a software business, in a lawless and corrupt country you will have local mafias try to extort you for money the moment they hear about it. In especially corrupt countries, corrupt cops/prosecutors etc will be in on it so there will be nothing to protect you. Blackouts will be common due to a poor power grid. Likewise, internet access will be unreliable, slow and expensive due to poor infrastructure.

A country like Germany is absolute godsend compared to, say, Nigeria or Cambodia.

abtinf 6 days ago | parent [-]

> If you build any successful business … you will have local mafias try to extort you for money the moment they hear about it.

Precisely how is this different from mixed economies, like the US or Germany?

jacob_a_dev 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

1. Attract software companies

While minimal infrastructure investments would need to be made to entice software companies, their is a political price to pay by allowing young business people into your country who likely will out-earn the average resident (many historical examples of this). This makes the majority of people unhappy, but brings in educated-non-criminal customers and tax dollars. Lets say Germany does (1) great, they attract 1000 smart europeans to found companies, and 10 years later 1 of those companies becomes a megacorp.

2. Keep software companies happy

10 years has passed, new politicians are in charge. Pursuing #1 is a separate strategy to #2. I would hope i live in a country that wants to (1) attract young talent and (2) keep talent happy, but of course thats not necessarily true. The new politicians in charge need to appease the majority of people again as its election season!

I think Germany / USA can't really have an honest conversation about this as Germany + USA already have highly progressive tax systems. A significant % of USA and Germany residents don't pay any reasonable amount of tax, and are drains on the tax system. I assume these %s are likely projected to grow in the future rather than decline.

If the price of bread happens to rise? Then our politicians and voters will support squeezing more tax out of productive sects of society for the short term gains. Then those productive and mobile members of society will slowly move elsewhere.

carstenhag 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"If you comply here, you will be compliant in almost all EU countries or even around the world" situation, many qualified students, international talent pool due to attractive cities, quality of life, startup grants/funding, hotspot for B2B fairs...

6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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neves 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It looks like education is cheap.