| ▲ | Atreiden 5 days ago |
| This is utterly dystopian. We say some stupid things as kids, because they're just words and we're missing greater context at that age. Immediately and automatically engaging law enforcement, and even the FBI, is horrific. Kids have always had greatly restricted freedoms in schools, but transcending the classroom and monitoring their digital lives is just training them to accept the surveillance state. |
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| ▲ | worldsayshi 5 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| The fact that this technology exists might make decision makers feel compelled to always to add as much surveillance as possible and acting on it as diligently as possible. Because it's their responsibility to create safety. And the most short term solution is to always enact more control over everything. |
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| ▲ | 1718627440 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The fact that weapons exist, might make some people feel compelled to always shoot as much as possible. Sure, these people exist. They are dangerous. | |
| ▲ | doctorwho42 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Adding more and more safety and control is always a self-defeating policy. It always ends with creating uncontrollable societal discord. Same thing with unfettered capitalism, the systems only work if we continue to support said systems. When the rules break down, so do the desires of the collective to maintain said systems. | | |
| ▲ | worldsayshi 5 days ago | parent [-] | | It seems that a deeper cause of this is lack of trust in long term solutions and the ability to come up with a plan that beat the short term knee jerk solutions - which could make the problems worse. If we can somehow win back trust in our collective ability to democratically solve problems... that should solve the problem. I think that involves some creative solutions to collective decision making. | | |
| ▲ | doctorwho42 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I agree, though I find that society has been throughly indoctrinated in thinking only about profit/economic motives and impacts. That is going to be the first major hurdle, teaching enough people that economics aren't the only metric for running a society, community, and life. | | |
| ▲ | Refreeze5224 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > thinking only about profit/economic motives and impacts. > teaching enough people that economics aren't the only metric for running a society, community, and life. I agree that this is the major problem with society today, but I don't see a solution when this is exactly the desired state of affairs by anyone with any amount of money. It's funny how only in economics is a secondary effect (efficiency/production/profit) optimized for, and we just hope or assume that it will result in wide-scale health/happiness/wellbeing. In any other situation, we would just design the system around the desired outcome. | |
| ▲ | worldsayshi 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Agreed. I think there are methods for teaching that at scale. Like, let's design an idle game that shows other possibilities. |
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| ▲ | kolektiv 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > training them to accept the surveillance state From the perspective of those pushing this kind of technology and political movement, is that a bug or a feature? |
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| ▲ | doctorwho42 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, it's a feature. If anything, its a basement bargain feature. For any large system, indoctrination early and often is the best way for systemic change. We already see it with the modern surveillance state, post 9-11 the US citizenry has lost so many freedoms and if you ask random people on the street about it they would be perplexed. Hell, even my friends give me a bit of the "ahh so this is your conspiracy theory" look when I mention them. Growing up through 9-11 and the forever war was pretty dystopian, or at least a March into the dystopia's that I only read about in books. |
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| ▲ | koakuma-chan 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > We say some stupid things as kids, because they're just words and we're missing greater context at that age. I think the problem is that people send kids to public schools and just hope for the best. Imagine you have a brand new child, and you send it to school, and the child ends up saying something offensive, is this the child's fault? I think not. The child was trained on harmful data, it's not surprised the child exhibited undesirable behaviours. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | My kid went to public school in Canada. He learned English pretty quickly and one day got suspended from school for a week. When I asked what had happened he said the other kids asked him to pronounce f.u.c.k. and then, after he complied ran to the teacher to say that he'd used a 'bad word'. So, the principal, one Roman Peredun calls me up and says that my son used a bad word. I asked him what word. He wouldn't say it. So I asked how am I supposed to know how 'bad' my son is if you can't even repeat the word. He then spelled the word. I said, oh, 'fuck'. Yes, that's not in dutch however so he must have picked it up in your school. Peredun hung up and I sent my kid back to school the next day. | |
| ▲ | giantg2 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I can confirm this. Sent a 5yo to public school and they came home with the new saying "I don't give a fuck!". Not what I want a 5yo to learn. We have massive overreactions by the schools for comments like in the article, but they're culpable in this sort of behavior by creating a largely undisciplined environment for basic in-person behavior. Uncontrolled classrooms and busses lead to all sorts of problems because nobody gets punished on the low end. My kid got in trouble for something and the punishment was to play alone at recess. Really? I told the school I think they should have been in detention at recess, possibly for a couple days. Of course they got punished at home too, which I suppose doesn't happen in some households. | | |
| ▲ | Hizonner 5 days ago | parent [-] | | > Sent a 5yo to public school and they came home with the new saying "I don't give a fuck!". Not what I want a 5yo to learn. Ya know what? No sane person gives a fuck. | | |
| ▲ | NoGravitas 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Most of us are all out of fucks to give. With how things are going, I'm not totally surprised that even 5 year olds are running out of fucks already. | | | |
| ▲ | giantg2 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is not the vocabulary nor the mindset that someone with 5 year old control and unrealized potential should be exposed to. It's fine for us old, ground down folks with self control. |
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| ▲ | mr90210 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The child was trained on harmful data, it's not surprised the child exhibited undesirable behaviours. Your comment reduces children to entities that will behave as expected provided they get fed “good” data. Humans are not LLMs. | | |
| ▲ | giantg2 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | You're taking the inverse of the commentor said. Being fed good data and being good is a different thing than being fed bad data and expecting them to be good. There are plenty of studies on formative environments, especially on how negative environments can lead to negative behaviors. | |
| ▲ | koakuma-chan 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think children will behave properly given proper values and education. | | |
| ▲ | giantg2 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I don't think that's universally true, but I do generally agree. It at least raises the probability substantially. | | |
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