Your question was answered above:

> What do you consider computers, cellphones, air conditioners, flat screen TVs and refrigerators to be? The first ones had outrageous prices that only the exorbitantly wealthy could afford. Now almost everyone in the US has them. They seem to have trickled down to me.

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rTX5CMRXIfFG 6 days ago | parent [-]

Eh, whatever. That’s not a direct answer explaining what and where exactly is trickle-down economics in that phenomenon. At best, you’re just arguing off a fallacy: that because B happened after A, then A must have necessarily caused B.

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6 days ago | parent | next [-]

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6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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ryao 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I do not think that fits “If the money had not been there for all of that, how would the affordable versions exist today?”, but let’s agree to disagree.

That said, I see numerous things that exist solely because those with money funded R&D. Your capital markets theory for how the R&D was funded makes no sense because banks will not give loans for R&D. If any R&D funds came from capital markets, it was by using existing property as collateral. Funds for R&D typically come from profitable businesses and venture capitalists. Howard Hughes for example, obtained substantial funds for R&D from the Hughes Tool Company.

Just to name how the R&D for some things was funded:

- Microwave oven: Developed by Raytheon, using profits from work for the US military

- PC: Developed by IBM using profits from selling business equipment.

- Cellular phone: Developed by Motorola using profits from selling radio components.

- Air conditioner: Developed by Willis Carrier at Buffalo Forge Company using profits from the sale of blacksmith forges.

- Flat panel TV: Developed by Epson using profits from printers.

The capital markets are no where to be seen. I am at a startup where hardware is developed. Not a single cent that went into R&D or the business as a whole came from capital markets. My understanding is that the money came from an angel investor and income from early adopters. A hardware patent that had given people the idea for the business came from research in academia, and how that was funded is unknown to me, although I would not be surprised if it had been funded through a NSF grant. The business has been run on a shoe string budget and could grow much quicker with an injection of funding, yet the capital markets will not touch it.

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rTX5CMRXIfFG 6 days ago | parent [-]

I don’t think you even understand what capital markets are. That entire litany about banks isn’t even remotely close to how loans are applied for and granted—-but to address your anecdata more directly: Where do you think VCs are getting their money? You’ve never heard of one raise a fund before? Heck, what do you think a VC is if not a seller of capital?

	▲	ryao 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		VCs are run by people with big pockets. See the softbank's vision fund for an example. VC funds typically involve Accredited Investors, who all have big pockets, rather than the rest of us: https://www.sec.gov/resources-small-businesses/capital-raisi... As for capital markets, I had misunderstood what the term meant when I replied, as your definition and the definition at wikipedia at a glance looked like it described the lending portion of fractional reserve banking and I never needed a term to discuss the individual "capital" markets collectively. Investopedia has a fairly good definition: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalmarkets.asp I am going to assume that by capital markets, you really mean the stock market (as the others make even less sense for getting a new business off the ground to produce something new). Unfortunately, a business needs to be at a certain level of maturity before they can do an IPO on the stock market. VC exists for the time before an IPO can be done. Once they are at that size, the stock market can definitely inject funding and that funding could be used for R&D. However, share dilution to raise funds for R&D is not sustainable, so funding for R&D needs to eventually transition to revenue from sales. This would be why the various inventions I had listed had not been funded from capital markets. I imagine many other useful inventions had not been either. That said, the stock market also is 90% owned by the wealthiest 10% of Americans, so the claim that "Capital markets exist by pooling in the savings even by poor and middle class households" is wrong: https://seekingalpha.com/news/4464647-deeper-dive-the-wealth... In any case, despite your insistence that money does not trickle down, your own example of capital markets shows money trickling down. The stock market in particular is not just 90% owned by the wealthiest Americans, but is minting new millionaires at a rapid pace, with plenty of rags to riches stories from employees at successful businesses following IPOs.