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thinkindie 7 days ago

I moved to Germany 10 years ago and while regional and suburban train service has been great, the long distance service has been terrible, with high prices, almost no high speed service and no competition. I'm Italian and therefore I had very low expectations, but at least high speed trains in Italy run better than Germany (at least until recently, when lack of regular maintenance work ultimately made its dent into the service quality).

But for many software engineer this is not a big surprise: everyone knows that accumulating tech debt and neglecting maintence will eventually bite back sooner or later.

layer8 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

> high speed trains in Italy run better than Germany

Not to excuse the German performance, but part of the reason is that the Italian high-speed railway network is significantly simpler than the German one, also in terms of interconnections with neighbouring countries:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_TAV.png#/media...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ICE_Network.png#/med...

thinkindie 7 days ago | parent [-]

Germany is much flatter than Italy - while the the line between Bologna and Florence, Florence and Rome, Rome and Naples, must go through a lot of mountains or steep hills. Also, Italy is a territory with a lot of seismic activity every year, and that's something you can't ignore when you send trains at 300 km/h.

layer8 7 days ago | parent [-]

The problem in Germany is that due to the structure of the railway network, there are much more interdependencies between connections, so one disruption tends to be harder to contain. It spreads out and affects many more connections.

alexey-salmin 7 days ago | parent [-]

What does this even mean?

6510 7 days ago | parent [-]

One train has to get off for a different one to get on a track. Delays compound.

alexey-salmin 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

How is it different from every other rail network in the world?

ivandenysov 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

France’s high speed trains have a dedicated network of tracks. They don’t have to share those tracks with regional and cargo trains.

thinkindie a day ago | parent [-]

btw every high speed train network is separated from the conventional one otherwise they will never be able to travel as fast as 300km/h

6510 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I imagine if you have a culture of great engineering you don't expect it to collapse when you lean on it.

metalman 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

which translates as, germany has no land left for rights of way and things like train switching yards.....real estate is bonkers expensive... and switching tracks for high speed trains are going to be HUGE....next step would be to have elevated(double deck) bypass tracks....but that would cause.....further disruptions

mc32 7 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are so many Germans on YouTube mocking both the lack of time precisiin as well as the pricing schedule where to get reasonably priced tickets is you have to book them three months in advance

namibj 7 days ago | parent [-]

No the trick is to get one of the first x% of tickets sold to exactly that train. Well, mostly; being early also has some influence but the amount of unsold seats is far more important.

7bit 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a German, I always loved the long distance trains I. Italy. I remember a trip in 2008 crossing From south to North Italy which cost a fraction of what it would have in Germany. It had A/C and it was on time. So comfy. Meanwhile in Germany, they charged a shitton of money and it had no A/C.

Still last year I found it much better than in Germany, overall. The only thing that PISSES me off is that the stupid Trenitalia does not show me which platform the train is departing/arriving from. It blows my mind that this CRUCIAL information is not shown anywhere and you literally have to be standing in the station to hopefully find it.

ThePowerOfFuet 5 days ago | parent [-]

>The only thing that PISSES me off is that the stupid Trenitalia does not show me which platform the train is departing/arriving from. It blows my mind that this CRUCIAL information is not shown anywhere and you literally have to be standing in the station to hopefully find it.

The Trenitalia app shows arrival and departure platform and time info per station, as well as for trips you are currently taking.

There is also this gem of a website, no TLS and with 2007 iPhone 1.0 design language, but it works:

http://www.viaggiatreno.it/infomobilitamobile/pages/cercaTre...

7bit 4 days ago | parent [-]

I just tried again an the app does not show the platform.

aquatica 3 days ago | parent [-]

It does. Open your train ticket from the app, then the "i" next to "On time"/"+X MIN" text, and it shows the list of all train stops and where the train is. Next to the train stop you find a number which is the platform

FirmwareBurner 7 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> regional and suburban train service has been great

In which city?

bilbo0s 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know what others think, but Munich seemed reliable to me.

YMMV

schroeding 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

The problem in Munich is that everything must go through a single two-track part underneath the city center, which is at absolute capacity. If anything breaks down there (and it does, often, very often), even a small delay in a single train, all trains get delayed or skip stops.

In my experience, you have to take at least one train early if you do not want to come late regularly. Even e.g. the main airport train line, used by tourists, often turns around before the actual airport due to delays.

If you live in the city itself, it's fine, you also have other options. If you live further away, it's barely acceptable to very bad, IMO.

It is reliable-ish, but more "Amtrak Capital Corridor"-reliable than "JR Yamanote Line"-reliable.

zvr 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

You should qualify the "often" for people not living in Munich, as some may interpret it to mean "several times per day" or "several times per month".

I agree that, in cases where being on time is essential (like catching a flight), allowing for a train malfunction so that you can reach your destination with the next one is a good strategy.

illiac786 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Very nice comment, thanks.

One remark only: TGV does not have to use the high speed rails only. It will just have to go slower on the other rails.

immibis 7 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I live in Berlin and while there are sometimes disruptions, it's hard to complain when the interval between trains is 4-5 minutes. Just get on the next one. Actually, if the train is 2-3 minutes late, it makes sense to wait another 3-2 minutes after that because it's guaranteed the late train will be crowded, and the next one will be undercrowded, because most people don't follow this principle.

Sibling comment says all traffic in Munich is funneled through the same central section; that's also true for several Berlin lines, but I've never heard of it becoming a problem. Maybe one time. Berlin's network[1] is complex enough that you have plenty of alternate routes available if something like that happens.

Note to future urban planners: a ring railway is a great idea as it provides redundancy of any possible route through the city center. (Very large cities might even need two. The Soviets actually built a second ring to avoid West Berlin, but it doesn't run as a continuous service. You can see various regional services running around the very outside of the network map.)

I've also traveled fairly long distances by regional train (yay Deutschlandticket) and by ICE (absolutely worth it if you're not penny-pinching). It's always disrupted; trains are always late. But I always get to my destination, so I don't mind that much. If you're on a nice and relaxed schedule, like traveling the day before, you'll be fine. It seems an acceptable, despite not ideal, way to run a railway network.

I think that unlike plane travel, where you normally get there exactly on time but there's a small chance you might be seriously delayed, with German train travel you're quite often a few hours delayed (for a cross-country trip) but it's never worse than that. You never have to stay the night in a hotel, you never have to pay extra money to get rebooked, and you never have to sue them afterwards. IIRC, if you're estimated to arrive more than 20 minutes late, you're allowed to just hop on any train towards your destination - the DB app will tell you this - and you don't need a new ticket, though it's recommended to get a note from a customer service desk to prove it occurred.

Note that the German network runs a lot of trains on a lot of tracks - unlike, say, the French TGV network, which has dedicated tracks for TGVs. The German approach allows for more services with less reliability and the French approach provides the opposite. AFAIK, there are a lot more ICE routes than TGV routes because the routes can be pieced together from existing local track segments and incrementally upgraded.

Side note: I've been on a regional train that was delayed 10 minutes, then sat on a siding for another hour to let more important traffic such as ICEs run on schedule past it. There is a tradeoff between resource utilization, and slack which allows for quick return to equilibrium. The more timeslots are occupied, the longer it takes before a delayed train can find a normally empty timeslot to fit into. This also applies to computers.

And people have been complaining about train delays since long before I got here.

[1] https://sbahn.berlin/liniennetz/

thinkindie 7 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Berlin. Until few years ago it was great.

7 days ago | parent [-]
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