That's a pretty weak inductive argument. To substantiate it, you'd need to look at the actual causes of that apparent connection. In doing so, you'd likely find that the connection is nowhere near as directly causal as you seem to be imagining.

After all, China has been following a market-based variation on a communist one-party state for quite some time. While it's certainly not the freest country in the world, today's US has started to lose any ability to claim a moral high ground by comparison (and arguably, past US couldn't either.)

Your perspective may be one mostly borne of indoctrination.

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agent327 6 days ago | parent [-]

The connection is trivial: you are upsetting an existing power system, temporarily removing all checks and balances. The new power system gets established by the aggressors, and they have absolutely no reason to hold back. At that point, human nature will simply take over.

My perspective has nothing to do with indoctrination, but is instead born out of historical knowledge. Communism has been tried again, and again, and again, and each time the outcome was the same. Capitalism has also been tried, and has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system we ever came up with.

The existence of the ultra-rich doesn't bother me. I wouldn't suddenly be richer if people like Musk or Bezos suddenly popped out of existence; their lives simply don't impact mine. If anything, their existence serves as an inspiration for others to try for big dreams. Many of those will fail, some will succeed marginally, and a very small number will join the ranks of the ultra-rich - because they managed to provide a service that millions of people were willing to give them money. What does communism have to offer, in comparison to that? Equal poverty doesn't sound all that attractive.

Now, if you were to argue that these mega-rich people and their companies have too much power, we would have something to talk about. I see the solution to that in legislation though, not in the complete destruction of our society followed by a century-long dark age.

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dontlikeyoueith 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

> if people like Musk or Bezos suddenly popped out of existence; their lives simply don't impact mine. If anything, their existence serves as an inspiration for others to try for big dreams. Many of those will fail, some will succeed marginally, and a very small number will join the ranks of the ultra-rich - because they managed to provide a service that millions of people were willing to give them money.

Sure, you're not indoctrinated. Keep telling yourself that.

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strbean 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The connection is trivial: you are upsetting an existing power system, temporarily removing all checks and balances. The new power system gets established by the aggressors, and they have absolutely no reason to hold back. At that point, human nature will simply take over.

Sounds like an argument against radical societal upheaval, rather than argument against any particular social or economic order. I think it's a good argument, but attacking alternatives to our current order with that argument begs the question: can we not have incremental change towards another order?

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antonvs 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> you are upsetting an existing power system

That has nothing to do with communism specifically, so isn't a very strong starting point for your argument. You're essentially saying that no significantly different system can stably replace the current system, which is of course an ahistorical claim.

> each time the outcome was the same.

What about modern China? It supports over 4x the population of the US. The US is currently falling apart politically and economically as it is, so whether its current system can scale to the level of China's is an open question, to which the answer is "almost certainly not." Is American-style capitalism only suited for smaller countries, then?

You're cherry-picking of facts to focus on and facts to ignore. You have a conclusion that you believe in as a fact, which forces you to carefully choose what you allow to enter your thinking on the subject.

I'm not actually saying that communism is the solution. But I am saying that your argument is not a good one against it.

	▲	agent327 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		> You're essentially saying that no significantly different system can stably replace the current system, which is of course an ahistorical claim. I'd say most times it happened in history, significant bloodshed was incurred during a system change. Systems change as the result of revolutions and wars. People die, during those. > What about modern China? Modern China killed tens of million people during the Great Chinese Famine, which was caused entirely by communist policy, so I don't think your argument is working as well as you were hoping. And if that's too old for you: the jury is still out on how many Chinese died during the covid lockdown, but it's likely to be substantial. In the West, a lockdown meant you weren't allowed to leave your home. In China, it meant they welded you into your apartment, with whatever food you had available. > You're cherry-picking of facts to focus on and facts to ignore. Whereas you are completely blind to the inevitable outcome of the policies you pursue. What facts do you think I'm ignoring? Is it the fairness of Stalinist Russia? The freedom of North Korea? The economic progress of communist Ethiopia? The intellectual prowess of communist Cambodia? The equality of China? What am I overlooking that turns murderous communist regimes into great places to emulate?