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fidotron 9 days ago

This is very timely for me, because I've just come into possession of a 4D/60 "buttons box" (which normally would go with the dials). It is quite unlike the later button boxes since it's a giant cheese wedge with the power supply integrated, which seems to be very rare as there's no reference to this on the net anywhere. It even has a display where when the unit powers on it says it's rev A. I'm hoping the DB-9 on it is RS232 and can be spoken to by a modern machine, but my one RS232 cable is the wrong gender, of course.

Many years ago I had an Indigo, and even 25 years ago that was an exercise in difficult interfacing with modern equipment. The monitor was amazing.

Edit to add: the notes here about 20A power requirements remind me of when a VR company I was consulting for hired a notable CTO from the VFX business and all he cared about was making sure there was enough electricity supplied to the office. That was in about 2015 and I remember thinking he was clearly scarred by previous events and was long out of date.

oasisaimlessly 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

> [...] I was consulting for hired a notable CTO from the VFX business and all he cared about was making sure there was enough electricity supplied to the office. That was in about 2015 and I remember thinking he was clearly scarred by previous events and was long out of date.

You're likely being overly dismissive. Ensuring you have enough power is vital, and being wrong can set you back a year or longer while you wait for permitting, the actual service upgrade, and inspections to be completed.

I'm currently dealing with this right now with my startup and wish I'd begun the process a year earlier when I first expected it to be necessary; at the time, I'd assumed it could happen in a few months.

fidotron 8 days ago | parent [-]

> You're likely being overly dismissive.

Not close. A Mac Pro trashcan is not going to cause anything like the same class of problem.

There was zero concern about having to increase the air conditioning capacity, for example.

ddingus 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It is RS232. Try 9600 baud, N, 8, 1

It should start streaming events in ASCII the moment you do anything with the buttons.

The joystick ran at that bitrate, which I thought slow but it wasn't.

A full SGI setup, ONYX Reality Engine with edge blended display, joystick, buttons, dials, space ball 3D control (all RS232), a sprinkling of workstations, is kind of a magical environment.

At one point, I had everything except the reality engine. Origin servers instead of ONYX. Fantastic computing environment.

A few things possible on that setup:

Pull a sick SCSI drive right out of a group setup with error correction and full XFS Journaling. Nothing bad happens except disk activity goes up a little. Then insert another one, rescan the SCSI bus, then add the drive to the group and see disk activity go way up as the system repopulates that drive to replace the sick one.

Want an incremental tape backup? You can ask IRIX to back up a subset of any given file system. No big deal, lot of systems do that, right? Well, read it back into your home directory only to find out that incremental backup is a valid, mini-fileaystem that can be read, written to and so forth. That feature makes doing backups simple with a few scripts, same with file recalls.

Start ones career with a XFS disk created on an Indy, IRIX 5.3. Take that same file system through a career, Indy, O2, Octane, Fuel, Origin, and end it on IRIX 6.5.30

Each time I leveled up, I cloned my original environment onto a disk suitable for the new machines, ran swmgr to sort out OS components, dependencies, libraries, dev environment, and then it was off to the races!

I made many different file systems, but my personal one only needed to be made once!

Linux window managers and fonts were kind of crappy compared to how nice the Indigo Magic Desktop was. I had an Indy managing windows and serving fonts to my Linux boxes for a few years.

X was network modular. Still is, and I hope the effort to save it sees success!

Once, just for fun I distributed a high end CAD application across many machines:

One machine was my primary user display. Another machine managed the windows, yet another handled fonts, another was sharing storage for the application which ran on yet another machine which got data from still another machine!

Double click an icon, hear that kerechka! SGI app launch sound and see 6 machines contribute to the spinning model on my screen!

Could run an X server with -GLX extensions enabled to make it 7 machines, one being a PC running an X server to view the product of the other 6 machines.

Record video using S-video input while compiling MAME. Write it out on an S-video capable VCR with quality equal to commercial VHS movies, or sometimes better.

On that note, build XMAME on an Indy. Using GCC it would take close to a day. Using MipsPRO, it could take longer with -O3 enabled to get a binary 10 to 15 percent faster.

One time I got behind on a movie project. Needed many machines rendering frames to hit deadline. I had set one up to do the work over a weekend and the job died 100 frames in.

OOF!

After management secured some temp licenses for the Alias renderer I was using, I spent 16 or so hours straight using every machine in the building to render frames.

Some had users on them who never knew I had unloaded whole sub-systems they were not using to make room for the renderer to be loaded and work. I would kick it off and then renice process priority low enough to mooch every cycle the user did not need. Then when done, put it all back how I found it most none the wiser. Out sysadmin, who was training me to do systems work loved it and spent a fair amount of time looking at the various boxes and how they performed under the high loads I subjected the ones without active users to.

I spent the time in front of my O2, main desktop at the time, using virtual desktops to manage all the environments I had remoted to my display and copying bunches of frames to my local storage to be burned onto optical disk every so often to hedge against catastrophe, and otherwise slotting them into my Alias Composer movie timeline and doing test writes to VHS as chapters got done. Was brutal! And on the eve of a major holiday, family a total mess because there was no way I could go home!

Wrote it all out to video tape just an hour before the person who bought the time was going to catch a flight to Taiwan. Made them 2 copies, just in case. Literally hit play, saw they were complete, hit rewind, and when the VCR did that finish click, the guy walked in anxious expression melting into a smile as I handed him tapes!

By the way, that experience about 5 years into my serious computing phase, was when I really committed to UNIX. It was so damn powerful compared to Windows at the time. Still is, but it is harder to tell these days.

I had the best computing experiences ever on SGI machines! Learned a ton along the way and miss all that big sometimes.

My UNIX knowledge ebbs and flows, depending on where project work may take me. But what I know of UNIX and LINUX at any given time is more than enough to kick ass and get shit done.

Further, most of that has remained useful without too many changes.

Take Linux and the body of Open Code we have today and it is a lot of great software offering up a ton of capability to anyone who bothers to load it up and just start using it.

Nothing compares. Don't get me wrong here. Windows and MacOS are really good now, but they were not back then when it really mattered.

What I like most is not having to constantly remap skills as much as I sometimes find myself doing in Windows and to a fair degree now and then in Apple land.

First thing I do on new hardware is spin up a Linux, then install Windows. I mostly leave Macs on MacOS, though I can't wait to run Linux on my M1. Just need some time...

Then I go get all my open code, settle all that in and then finally whatever closed thing I gotta use get setup and I am ready to go. Until recently, I was proud to have never purchased Microsoft OS or App licenses. Happy to do the work as long as some one else clicks the EULA and pays the money...

This time around I bought Win 10/11 though I am gonna try and avoid 11, and permanent licenses to Office because those may go away.

These things all come from SGI influences.

Edit: Years later a friend brought me an Indigo Elan! Beautiful machine running IRIX 5.3. 30Mhz R8000 256Mb of RAM.

On a whim, I compiled amp, which was an optimized mp3 decode to real-time playback, or output to wave or AIFF file tool.

That 30Mhz machine could play back up to 256mbps Joint Stereo files without stuttering! 90 percent CPU utilization. Yes, that left just enough to do it from an xterm on a logged in desktop from a shared file repository the machine read over NFS. Basically full utilization doing that! But hey, quality, stereo mp3 playback from a 30Mhz workstation was sweet! Really showed the quality of the systems. That particular box was produced in the very early 90's I believe.

It is no surprise to see nVidia doing ehat it does today. SGI had many of the best and brightest in the building and often funded what it took to get the most out of those people.

Heh, a shared memory design in the O2 workstation could throw moving video onto moving surfaces with relative ease and do so before 2000. Heck, it could do the same with a 700mb image.

Apple M1 is a shared memory design that warms my heart. I know they are up to what M4, M5? I am happy with my M1 Mac Air for now.

Sorry for the ramble. Sometimes an SGI topic gets me remembering so many damn good and fun things...

If you made it this far, thank you for reading! Please putany cool IRIX experiences you are having or had here where I can see 'em.

clan 8 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Please putany cool IRIX experiences you are having or had here where I can see 'em.

My mind was blown wn when I started University in 1993. We had rooms filled with brand new Indys. We had SUN boxes. We had been Solaris boxes. We had Snakes (HP 9000) running HP UX.

All as one heterogeneous system. You logged in to any workstation running X. Everything was seamless connected. One Login and everything just worked.

That new fangled Mosaic was then also primarily used to view scantily clad women. Serious students found serious information on Gopher. The geeks of the geeks wandering the MUDs.

Mosaic ran best (only?) on the SUN boxes. But through the power of X you could use it anywhere.

I saw the future. I thought that was how things was supposed to work. I have never experienced such a smooth and well running system ever since. So nostalgia hits hard with any mention of the old boxes.

Only thing I do not remember seeing at the time was IBM RS/6000 running AIX. And with full access to everything for a first year student. Glory days.

This was at DAIMI in Aarhus. First year students in Copenhagen at DIKU was envious as they had to share 1 HP workstation with around 20 terminals.

ddingus 7 days ago | parent | next [-]

I too lament people trying to kill the X Window System off.

There is a fork now. Maybe they won't succeed!

That software is powerful and it makes things possible that should be possible but so often aren't!

My favorite X window accomplishment was setting 30 users up on a powerful CAD system running on a big Origin server. It handled all of them nicely, and the application, data and such all ran at local speed on that server. At the time, this was damn fast!

System Admin was easy too. I had a modem on that machine and would dial it up, fix the things from all over the country on a free Juno account! 2.5Kbytes per second on average and that was plenty!

So many great experiences on X. I used it hard.

Also up thread, I wrote about fully distributing a CAD app. One machine displaying for user, one managing windows, one serving fonts, on sharing the data files onto another one running the actual application reading data files from yet another one sharing those...

Crazy. Click an icon and 7 boxes all work together to get it done.

ddingus 7 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>>I saw the future. I thought that was how things was supposed to work. I have never experienced such a smooth and well running system ever since

Me too. Seeing the future was one of the more common sentiments expressed by people running IRIX, especially when there was enough gear available to exercise the better features.

In the later 90's we would break for 3D games with voice and video chat, yelling taunts and such asbif we were all in the same room.

Software manager was one of the better future features in my view. That thing was quite powerful!

Once, while doing the video render stunt I mention up thread, one machine ran out of space. Software manager [swmgr] paused, offered me the choice of changing what I wanted to install, the option to uninstall additional subsystems to free space, exit to a shell to do that manually, and or continue, all while another user was running the machine, busy doing CAD work, and without a reboot, or interrupting that user.

I specified more software to remove, swmgr finished up and it was go time! Easy Peasy.

yjftsjthsd-h 8 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Some had users on them who never knew I had unloaded whole sub-systems they were not using to make room for the renderer to be loaded and work. I would kick it off and then renice process priority low enough to mooch every cycle the user did not need. Then when done, put it all back how I found it most none the wiser. Out sysadmin, who was training me to do systems work loved it and spent a fair amount of time looking at the various boxes and how they performed under the high loads I subjected the ones without active users to.

Huh. That would be an interesting case of load testing.

ddingus 8 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah it was. And back then, running IRIX, I was more than a bit crazy and wild. It was such a fun OS! SGI as mentioned up thread, put a ton of thought into it.

Once a person reached a solid mastery, amazing things could be done, sans reboots and the like.

I was terribly spoiled though. Ran it until it made no sense, then ditched all of it to go small.

My next fun toy was the Parallax Propeller. The first chip was amazing, 8 cores all independent. It was a full multiprocessor, able to perform concurrent and or parallel computing with such ease! Spoiled again!

The second chip is the Amiga of microcontrollers. Maybe I could call it the SGI of micros. Today, one can program the 8 cores in BASIC, SPIN, C and ASSEMBLY, all at the same time!

Write video driver in assembly, framework in SPIN, some functions in BASIC, others, maybe sound in C.

It has hardware support got ADC / DAC and more on every pin, shared CORDIC math able to do powers, roots, trig and more. It can drive almost any display made since monochrome TV.... too much fun.

Tor3 7 days ago | parent | prev [-]

We ended up with SGI machines for technical data processing (huge amounts of data), tons of processing going on in parallel. We went through DEC systems (Alpha), Sun, HP, IBM. The SGI systems could handle way more load than any of the others without trashing. And several other reasons. A happy choice.

I still have a few SGI systems in my basement. Octane, Fuel, some Indy boxes.. O2..

ddingus 7 days ago | parent [-]

You should boot them and if nothing else, idle them so the circuits do not degrade too much.

Sitting with no power is bad for SGI computers.

fidotron 8 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I appreciate the nostalgia, and will be trying the rs232 when I have the suitable connector to build the cable!

There were several SGI related shocks for me, with the underlying huge one being the level of thought that had gone into IRIX with respect to making a UNIX that could be used by non sys admins while also allowing a local site sys admin to do the sort of things you were doing there. Stuff like a standard GUI panel to setup emailing the sys admin when the system crashed and so on - it was a deeply practical system.

ddingus 8 days ago | parent [-]

Yes it was. And through about IRIX 6.5.12 the Online Books were amazing!

Run a workstation on one extreme, deliver multiple displays and or multiple users, each with their own keyboard and mouse on another, and also scale up to 2048 CPUs running NUMA style, on a single OS image.

Nothing else like it.

Yeah, hope you do talk to it. Those serial input devices were great.

Tor3 7 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It's sad that the networked way of working we could do back then seems to be gone forever. Just something simple as sitting on a workstation with an Emacs window or two.. and then having to leave that particular workstation to someone else, or the office itself, for whatever reason.. just tell emacs to display the frame (aka window) on another machine elsewhere. Move over, continue typing. Now we have clumsy "clouds" as a very poor substitute for the above. Ah, "security" took it all away.

ddingus 4 days ago | parent [-]

Indeed. One really great thing about the X Window System was how it made sharing important resources easy and effective.

Say one has expensive simulation software of some kind. One could hop onto the machine it is licensed to, remote the display back home the local machine and the user is off to the races!

Some software was aware of the display, and there are some answers to that too, but the overall experience was simple that way.

Another use case is using data managed software. Users can log onto the application server and run the app. The app interacts with the data which the users could never see. Back in the day, being able to do that meant operating at local disk speeds! Stuff went super fast!

Multi user graphical computing was what the X Window System was designed to deliver and it does do that.

Maybe my least favorite, but damn interesting was computers with multiple heads. Say one has 3 screens, keyboards, mice, whatever else they might need.

The login environment can be setup so that each user gets a screen

DISPLAY = LOCALHOST:0 :1 :2

...OR

A User gets all the screens

DISPLAY = LOCALHOST:0.0 :0.1 :0.2

Or any mix.

A beefy machine could support three users just like being networked, but all on the same box. The SGI Deskside Onyx could be used this way, supporting at least 2 users with a badass hardware box close by.

Users on the same machine enjoyed local transfer rates for sharing data. Today that may not be such a big deal, though it really could be depending. Earlier, it was a big deal due to networks just not being all that fast for at least the decade since multi-head hardware was more common.

In short, having multi-user computing was like a computer with a bunch of users connected by RS232, or the like.

Multi-user networked computing is everywhere today. Each user has at least one computer with all of them networked together.

Multi-user graphical computing is the thing some of us do not want to exist anymore. :( That is where there are multiple users, an optional network, and multiple displays and in particular, display systems are network transparent.