| ▲ | mrweasel 3 days ago |
| We do need to start talking about the failure of capitalism. I'm not naive enough to think that we should turn to communism, but it's clear how we're taught capitalism is suppose to work and how it plays out in reality are two different things. Ideally capitalism would yield better product or services, for a lower price. That's no longer happening. We're getting shittier products and we're paying more. But somehow we convince ourselves that it's still good, because the stock market is going up, corporate profits are going up. If there was ever any doubt that the hype is the product, then please explain the Tesla stock, 100% hype driven, there is zero correlation between the stock price and how the company is actually doing. |
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| ▲ | sznio 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| the theory assumes that in a free market, everyone is a rational actor, and that everyone is truthful we live in the age of lies. you can either keep debunking them to deaf ears, or join the bandwagon and maybe make some money by fooling someone else. the whole stock market feels like a ponzi scheme now. |
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| ▲ | mlazos 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s because capitalism assumes a free market with competition. If you allow monopolies to thrive, you will not get those benefits. It’s just that some of these types of markets have different dynamics due to their structure. E.g. natural monopolies where the barrier to entry is huge up front costs. Interestingly the AI startup ecosystem is raising enough money to surpass the barrier of needing a ton of data to train AI. |
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| ▲ | BrenBarn 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | That's true but it's not just monopolies per se. Another big part of it is information flow. The kind of idealized free markets that "work" involve relatively transparent interactions between buyers and sellers. Sort of like, well, a market --- an old-fashioned bazaar-type market with sellers offering their wares. You can walk down the line and see 10 people are selling apples or saddles or whatever and you can compare the prices and the products and make your decision. Even in that setup, people can try to game the market. They can make something that looks like a good saddle and sell it to you and then it falls apart not too long afterward. They can get you to agree to a price but then tell you the stirrups aren't included even though they're attached to the demo model. They can ask for half payment up front while they custom make your item, then skip town. And mechanisms sprung up to prevent this: regulation. Some are market-internal (reputation) and some are enforced (people can report you to the authorities for selling fraudulent goods, and you can be jailed or whatever). The problem is mainly that nowadays companies have turned the majority of their innovation energy towards this kind of market-gaming meta-activity. It's no longer about goods, services, buyers, sellers, or any of those things. It's just about finding new ways to manipulate the market itself. This is what the article seems to be saying, and I agree. I'm not sure I'd call it "hype", though. It's not that "the hype is the product", it's that the market activity is not oriented towards products at all. Products have become like abstract proxy tokens that are moved around to simulate what we think of as market activity, but all the real activity is happening in the meta-market. | |
| ▲ | mrweasel 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > It’s because capitalism assumes a free market with competition But even in the cases where we do have a free market, we're often seeing one company fiddle with quality, maybe drop the price a little, then the rest quickly follow and price goes right back up across the board. | |
| ▲ | fsckboy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | not attacking your thinking, but the terms "capitalism" and "free market" aren't consistently well enough defined to capture the nuances of what this type discussion requires. At a minimum, capitalism is the right/ability to own something without others taking it from you, and free markets are markets you can participate in if you would like without asking permission from the govt or belonging to a guild. capitalism works best for everybody on average when free markets are competitive, but when they are not, markets still work, they just work better for some, worse for others but better than nothing, and also overall worse for everybody because markets are not zero sum. The problem with a lot of what-turns-out-to-be left-wing and or populist thinking on markets is the assumption that markets are zero sum, "if there is a winner, there must be a loser", which while an attractive idea turns out to be false. same is true of the completely overblown idea that people are not rational. people are not perfectly rational, but when it comes to parting with their money they are much more rational than they are not. If it were not true, people wouldn't be living rationally measurably better lives today than 100, 200, etc. years ago. there are many other sources of noise in measuring that swallow irrationality up with the noise. (yes, selling gambling to gambling addicts is an irrational money printing machine, but civilization has not collapsed) | |
| ▲ | zahlman 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | For centuries as capitalism developed from more primitive systems (like feudalism and mercantilism), goods and services that gain value from social network effects were well beyond anyone's imagination. The printing press survived the church's attempts at suppression, but nobody back then could have conceived of a service that automatically distributed copies of your books to your friends — much less one that could profit from knowing who your friends are, rather than from explicitly charging you for the service. |
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| ▲ | indoordin0saur 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Capitalism isn't a single thing with an approved international standard of implementation. It can be implemented in a million different ways and its possible we just need some big redesign of it. > please explain the Tesla stock, 100% hype driven, there is zero correlation between the stock price and how the company is actually doing. They do still have the best electric cars on the market. |
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| ▲ | tim333 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >We do need to start talking about the failure of capitalism. People have been talking about the failures of capitalism long before the word was coined, going back to at least Abraham buying land with silver coins in 1675 BC and Jesus throwing out the money changers. Although it's a mess, people are generally better off than a while ago or under non capitalist systems. |
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| ▲ | IAmGraydon 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Capitalism has always exhibited these problems, which is why it’s supposed to be counterbalanced by regulation. The problem is that our politicians have become utterly corrupt, with Trump himself being the epitome of blatant corruption. He understands that exhibiting corruption from the highest levels will cause it to propagate everywhere, bringing the system crashing down. This and the destruction of the Federal Reserve are his primary goals. |
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| ▲ | mathiaspoint 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| The advantage to capitalism is the escape hatch not the cybernetics. |