You're completely off base on the focal length argument.

A traditional camera has the choice and can choose the most appropriate length; an Iphone is locked in to a fish-eye clearly put in there to overcome its inherent limitations.

So it doesn't really matter "if it's fair" or not, because it's not about a fair comparison, it's a demonstration that a traditional camera is just better. Why should the traditional camera use an inappropriate focal length just because the Iphone is forced to?

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Twisell 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Every hardware have it's limitations, my DSLR don't fit in my pocket for instance. But that wouldn't be a fair point when comparing photo quality against a smartphone.

Comparing quality with non equivalent focal lengths is as pertinent as to mount a fisheye on the DSLR (because you can!) and then claim that the smartphone have less distortion.

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josephg 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Comparing quality with non equivalent focal lengths is as pertinent as to mount a fisheye on the DSLR (because you can!) and then claim that the smartphone have less distortion.

I was about to disagree with you - but I think you're right. The photographer clearly took a couple steps back when they took the DSLR photo. You can tell by looking at the trees in the background - they appear much bigger in the DSLR photo because they're using a longer focal length.

I think a DSLR would struggle with the same perspective distortion if you put an ultrawide lens on it. It would have been a much more fair comparison if they took both photos from the same spot and zoomed in with the iphone.

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arghwhat 6 days ago | parent [-]

I'd agree if the phone had an appropriate focal length, but it doesn't. You can either go way too wide, or way too narrow (with a worse image sensor at that). Comparing the best the phone can sensibly do while handicapping the camera by intentionally doing the wrong thing for the situation makes no sense.

The only workaround for the phone would be to still step back and take the image with the 24mm equivalent, then crop the image a whole lot to get an appropriate and equivalent view.

> I think a DSLR would struggle with the same perspective distortion if you put an ultrawide lens on it.

Note that "proper" lenses have more room for corrective elements in their lens stacks, so decent quality setups should experience less distortion than the tiny smartphone pancakes.

An ultrawide will never be good though, it's a compromise for making things fit or making a specific aesthetic.

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dagmx 6 days ago | parent [-]

How do you know if the phone doesn’t have an appropriate focal length if the image isn’t marked?

Secondly, none of the points in the article are about optical distortion across the lens they’re all about perspective distortion. Corrective elements aren’t going to change that. None of the examples highlight barrel/pincushion distortion or the like as an offender.

	▲	arghwhat 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		> How do you know if the phone doesn’t have an appropriate focal length if the image isn’t marked? I listed focal lengths for an iPhone 16 Pro Max, and good focal lengths for flattering portrait photography is common photography knowledge that I provided as well for reference, set with a little wiggle-room by the optics of the human eye. There aren't more variables than subject framing and focal length, and a portrait of a person is a well-known size. Comparing the remaining two numbers is simple math. (It is well-known what distortion effect using the "wrong" focal length will give, which can sometimes be used intentionally but is not what you want in the average portrait. Shorter focal lengths give a silly, elongated facial appearance which exaggerates frontal features like nose and mouth, longer focal lengths give a flatter appearance which exaggerates rear features like neck width.) > Secondly, none of the points in the article The article clearly shows distorted images, and that the article fails to mention it does not make it less of an issue.

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DiogenesKynikos 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The article is comparing photo quality between two different cameras. The lens affects image quality, so it's completely fair to discuss.

If it were possible to switch out the lens on the iPhone, and the photographer had just chosen the wrong lens for the job, that would be a fair criticism of the article. But that's not what happened. The iPhone is just very limited when it comes to the lens, compared to a DSLR.

	▲	josephg 6 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> If it were possible to switch out the lens on the iPhone... It is possible to "switch out the lens" on an iphone, because iPhones ship with multiple camera lenses. (Well, multiple entire cameras). The iphone 16 they're using here has 3 cameras. And yet, I'm pretty sure the photo of the boys was taken with the ultrawide for some reason. A lot of the distortion problems would go away if they took a few steps back and used one of the longer lenses - just like they did with the DSLR.
	▲	labcomputer 6 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		You can always crop a wide shot. Most of the criticism comes down to not standing in the same spot for both photos (I’m unconvinced that the difference in jawlines, for example, is not because the subjects moved while the photographer did). You can take a bad picture with any camera.

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dagmx 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m sorry, if you’re going to argue it’s completely off base at least make a statement that isn’t easily dismissed by looking at the back of a phone.

My iPhone pro has 3 lenses of 15,24 and 77mm equivalents. This is far fewer than many Android phones.

Even the cheapest iPhone 16E has a super sampling sensor which allows a cropped 50mm equivalent. (And yes that’s a digital crop but that’s why I mention a super sampling sensor)

So yes, unless they were shooting on a budget phone or a much older iPhone, they have a choice of focal lengths that would better match whatever camera they’re comparing to.

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vladvasiliu 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not sure I get your point.

Most appropriate length for what? Some iPhones have multiple focal lengths, just like some "real camers" have fixed lenses with a fixed focal length (Fuxji x100 and the medium-format one whose model I can't remember, Leica something-or-other, Sony R1).

Plus, for what is a traditional camera "just better"? It's highly usage dependent.

I have both a bludgeon, which can be used as an interchangeable lens camera, and an iPhone. The first doesn't fit in my pocket, so sometimes the latter is the one I grab, since it's "better" for that specific use case.

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arghwhat 6 days ago | parent [-]

> Most appropriate length for what? Some iPhones have multiple focal lengths, ...

Most appropriate length for portrait photography is well established to be somewhere between 50mm and 100mm (35mm equivalent). The lower end is often considered more "natural" for such photo type, while the longer focal lengths are considered more flattering.

An iPhone 16 Pro Max has three focal lengths, 12, 24 and 120 (35mm equivalent). The first two are much too short unless significantly cropped, and the last one is excessive and requires stepping way back and has the worst image sensor and likely worst compromise of a lens - a lot of lens chonk is elements to manage chromatic aberration and distortion, which smartphone lenses have no room for.

> ... just like some "real camers" have fixed lenses with a fixed focal length (Fuxji x100 and the medium-format one whose model I can't remember, Leica something-or-other, Sony R1).

People using fixed lenses do so because they prioritize a particular type of image or style, and decided to get an even better (and lighter) lens for that instead of carrying around a compromise they don't need.

> Plus, for what is a traditional camera "just better"?

When it comes to getting the best picture, a chonky camera always wins - although they have had some catch-up to do on the software side, physics and our current technical limitations do not care about pocketability.

But a less perfect picture is better than no picture because you left the "real camera" at home. The best camera is the one you have on you.

(Also note that this is not binary between a smarpthone and an Olympic DSLR setup. Good compact cameras with collapsing lenses and mirrorless with smaller lenses are a middleground.)

	▲	Terretta 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		Really appreciated this comment, written as if by a photographer who also happens to use a mobile phone camera for EDL or street. Adding some similar color... > An iPhone 16 Pro Max has three focal lengths, 12, 24 and 120 (35mm equivalent). The first two are much too short unless significantly cropped, and the last one is excessive and requires stepping way back and has the worst image sensor and likely worst compromise of a lens This point contains one part of the solution: Zoom with your feet. Back up your shooting position to where you'd shoot an 85mm or 105mm, take the shot with the 2x lens, then crop. (Unless there's tons of light, then the 5x and hold very still. Even then, shoot both 2x and 5x and compare. Next year's phone should update the 5x sensor as well.) For the color problems the article highlights, shoot RAW and adjust in a raw development app. Otherwise, shoot using the new grid-based styles to make in-phone development adjustable later. Or use a different app – see below. For the bokeh, consider shooting in portrait, with aperture dialed to a full-frame DSLR level of (granted fake) bokeh. This remains adjustable after the shot so it's safer to leave active than one might think. Consider avoiding the iPhone's built-in camera app, consider shooting with an app that can skip the processing pipeline, like Lux's Halide, with “Process Zero” mode: https://halide.cam/ https://www.lux.camera/introducing-process-zero-for-iphone/ The bottom line, of course: > The best camera is the one you have on you. Assign the iPhone 16's shutter button to Halide or ProCamera or one of the newer contenders to shoot everything. Then to best enjoy your results, never shoot with a full frame using big glass and compare.

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kqr 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes and no. Modern phone cameras are strong enough that you can crop out the centre and get a passable image as if taken with a longer focal length.