I dislike how any conversation about this stuff immediately devolves into a decades ago history lesson about a thing as the singular root cause. Sure everyone is well aware of the history and you’re not wrong but it’s also history and not been the case in a very long time. Unless you were so poor you couldn’t take your kids on a day trip to a free pool, there’s been very little hindrances in quite a long time at this point. No reason black persons under 30 or so shouldn’t be swimming at much higher rates than their parent/grandparents. Meanwhile, the black people i know well and even just interacting with acquaintances and such treat non-swimming as a sort of badge of blackness. They scoff at the idea of learning later in life. They scoff at the idea of teaching their kids. As if it would make them “less black”. This is why I frame it as a current cultural phenomenon of values and identity. Sure a lot of the stuff you said made it that way, but that was generations ago at this point and it will not reverse unless some intention exists to buck the cultural norm.

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defrost 4 days ago | parent [-]

It was your choice to introduce "In America the racial cultures place different values on learning this skill" and leave that hanging.

Not everyone is "well aware of the history" despite your claim to the contrary so it's worth dragging events that occurred during my lifetime into the mix given they form the root of a particular part of why one American cultural group came to have values that became stereotypical..

Past actions leave shadows that by your own comment appear to still exist even if many have moved to the penumbra.

> Meanwhile, the black people i know well

Contrariwise the vast majority of black and not quite so black people I grew up with and know well swim like fish and a good number free dive toward the upper limit of human ability .. that's a whole other oyster shell of pearl though.

> but that was generations ago at this point

Perhaps for yourself, as mentioned above 1964 was within my lifetime.

	▲	conductr 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		It's a fact that poverty and race are linked here, also because of the history. You'd have to be an idiot in America not to know of all the wrongs against POC throughout history. It's all but obvious to a majority but just for good measure it's taught in grade school and a heavy component of a lot of movies/pop-culture. If you've made it far enough to be reading comments on HN, you're likely aware and don't need to be further educated. Stats still show black people have very low rates of swimming skills. Who you know or who I know may differ, but stats are stats. > Perhaps for yourself, as mentioned above 1964 was within my lifetime. A generation is defined as 20-30 years, so this was 2-4 generations ago. My words hold true, you've seen a lot in your lifetime - despite all the issues we still have regarding race, I'd say you've seen blacks have a lot more mobility over your lifetime, but not a significant improvement of their swimming skills.