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radicalbyte 3 days ago

I've been coding for 35 years and I've grown to hate it. Most of the work is boring. The things I absolutely loved doing, they require focus, and focus is something I just don't get to have at this point in my life (young kids) and career (if I'm focused I'm neglecting my responsibilities).

I've found AI to be a useful tool when using a new library (as long as the version is 2 years old) and in the limited use I've made of agents I can see the potential but also the dangers in wrong + eager hands.

gavmor 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> career (if I'm focused I'm neglecting my responsibilities).

I'm confused—can you expand on this? What's "the work" that you've "grown to hate?" Is it "coding," or is it your "responsibilities?"

andoando 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

If its any typical corporate job, as they said I imagine the coding is rather boring.

We need a new feature. Ok add this controller, add some if statements for this business logic, make some api calls, add this to the db, write some models. Ok done, same thing over and over again.

Id certainly love to be able to do the architecting part and have someone do the work

pjmlp 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

As enterprise consultant, the "have someone do the work" is kind of complicated when the someone is not from the same office, if given the choice I would rather do that boring stuff myself.

MattGaiser 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I’ve found GitHub Copilot Agent quite good for this kind of coding. You write up the architecture you want and I paste it into an issue and it fills in the rest.

radicalbyte 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Coding as the fun stuff need you to be able to focus and due to responsibilities (which include a whole lot of system architecture, people management I do enjoy and can do well).

Basically you get to a point in your life and career where you have to decide whether you want to be the absolute best engineer, or whether you want to be building the best environment for building and retaining the best engineers. I kicked the can down the line but it was eventually having three kids which made me realise that the latter was my path. That and it was becoming increasingly harder to actually do #1 when you seem to be surrounded by incompetents taking the second path who, as they often never became competent engineers but seem to have a large influence on decisions as a group.

It's not that I like writing code exactly it's that the domain of the code I can write to a professional level doesn't overlap with the code I find interesting to write. Or in the case of web frameworks, worth spending two days understanding the new dialect of whatever the latest fad framework is so that I know what I'm doing and not copy/pasting or otherwise working from example.

What might make it hard to understand is that the vast majority of people who call themselves engineers don't do so to the level I consider professional; especially in the app / web development / start-up world.

nunez 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The way I read it (and I agree with, so biased) is that OP hates that the focus of writing code is generally-perceived as a negative, hence the proliferation of code assistants, AND hates that focus is harder to obtain because of life stuff.

radicalbyte 3 days ago | parent [-]

That's it, it's life phase makes focus impossible, and coding is a massive drug when you're in the zone. And I was very very good a few years ago when in the zone working on highly concurrent (and distributed) systems. I felt like superman compared to everyone else I worked with as I could build things no-one else could.

There are plenty of people on this site who must be able to relate to that (and who are much better than I am - I was a Championship player playing for a League Two club and there are Galactico's active here).

That's long gone and now I'm turning into Eddy Howe (a football manager) not Steve Bull (who was an excellent striker who played for Wolves his entire career in the lower leagues but really should have moved to a good club because he was too good for them).

I wonder sometimes if that's the hump that top class sports stars have to go through when they retire from playing, it took me a few years to understand and accept.

johnisgood 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> coding is a massive drug

It truly is. One could say it could be an addiction. Something is an addiction only if it makes your life dysfunctional, and boy I have been coding for 3 days straight (!) without eating way too many times. I am completely in the zone and I neglect myself and everything around me. Yes, I know, it is bad and unhealthy, but it still happens often. I wonder if I am alone in this, I would hope not. :D

nunez 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I can definitely relate. I've taken week-long solo vacations (with my wife's approval!) just so that I can code without distractions.

I don't have kids, but given that I can easily work 6-8 hours straight on completing a feature, I have to curtail it to maintain a high-quality relationship. (I also weightlift, which can take up a lot of time.)

It's very difficult for me to get into the zone in three-hour spurts, and coding at night at the cost of my sleep is something I've retired. Shoot, a three-hour work session might be me trying to fix _a single bug._

Regarding "the hump," the show _Ted Lasso_ actually does a great job of describing this. A star player retires as they realize that they are no longer as spry as younger talent. Part of this show is about how they choose to deal with it.

bongodongobob 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Most non startup corporate programming jobs are just adding/removing features, add a checkbox here, squash this business logic bug, add a new dept code here, etc. You never build anything new, it's just piddly maintenance stuff.

ryandvm 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Damn, this hits hard. I used to love coding. Now, I can't even focus enough to make progress on my pet projects. And work stopped being fun a long time ago.

I'm using Claude Code to push my development efforts along and it works like crazy, but I can't help but feel like it's a Faustian Bargain and 80% of this industry is going to evaporate over the next decade.

hakunin 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I haven't seen many folks who actually hands-on programmed this long willingly and grown to hate it. Instead one is usually trying to become something else (CTO, executive, etc) but due to financial difficulties, struggle to make connections and promote themselves, had to keep writing code. Are you sure this wasn't more of your case? That said, I haven't programmed for 35 years yet (approaching 30 in my case), so I don't know how I might feel when I get there.

pjmlp 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Started with computers in 1986, and I don't want to become something else other that programming related activities, even if only partially due to architecture and devops stuff, unless obliged to by external factors.

Already did management tasks occasionally, and I rather be stuck on the last step of the career laddder with a job that makes me happy, than one I have to drag myself to office (physical or virtual one).

Eventually if healthy enough close to retirement age, I might as well do something completly different than computing related.

radicalbyte 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nope not at all. The first ~10 years were as a kid, so not professionally. Professionally I'm at the top of my niche and decided to work as a consultant instead of starting doing my own startup or starting an agency as I wasn't able to commit and have a family, and I loved writing code (and was bloody good at it, and at making my teams much much better by leading by example & helping them grow).

I spent the pandemic being one of the key players in the pandemic response, writing a lot of code but also helping a load of teams over different countries collaborate, and anything else I could do to make everything work. Oh and bringing up kids at the same time.

Now I'm at a startup, finally, and getting the engineering team off of the ground. Still trying to code (it's really hard to give up chasing the highs) a bit but there's less time for it and no time for the really hard deep dives (and I'm not willing to ignore my family to no-life it as others can do).

With that context, yeah, it's not as enjoyable. Sure I could try and transition back to a full-time coding roll and yeah, I'd be working on fun puzzles and enjoying it, but that means my impact is more limited. It's a better use of my skills + experience to be doing what I'm doing. Pays more too but both pay well :-)

hakunin 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Sounds very interesting, and at first I thought maybe you're an outlier, but the more I read people mention "solving puzzles", the more I notice a more fundamental difference in enjoying programming. For me it's not solving puzzles, but rather finding elegant/eloquent expression of something complex (feel like I'm more of a writer than an engineer). That's what makes me tick: clear code that can itself serve as a primary source of knowledge of how a business functions. If I work with an AI agent, I become an editor rather than a writer — a very different job.

jimbokun 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Uh, so in the end you pretty much ended up in a management role instead of coding and seems like you’re much happier that way.

So not far off from the comment you replied to.

lenkite 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It can happen if you develop health issues like carpal tunnel or Sciatica due to extended sitting. Programming then gets mentally associated with pain.

ljm 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Only 20 years since it started as a hobby. There is programming that I enjoy doing for the fun of it or for experimentation and I wouldn’t use AI for that (most likely because it’d be something that isn’t well known or documented).

If work wants me to use it for the job, then sure why not? That too is something new to learn how to do well, will possibly be important for future career growth, and is exciting in a different way. If anything, I’ve got spare mental compute by the end of the week and might even have energy to do my hobbyist stuff.

Win win for me.

fleebee 3 days ago | parent [-]

I on the other hand find agentic LLMs mentally draining.

I can't enter a flow state since the workflow boils down to waiting and then getting interrupted, and then waiting again. Often the LLM does the wrong thing and then instead of moving to implement another feature, I'm stuck in a loop where I'm trying to get it to fix poor decisions or errors.

It's possible I get a feature implemented faster thanks to agentic LLM, but the experience of overseeing and directing it is dreadful and pretty much invariably I end up with some sort of tech debt slop.

I much prefer the chat interfaces for incorporating LLMs into my workflow.