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| ▲ | DocTomoe 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a very sensible topic ... and sensible topics need careful solutions, not 'let's reinvent a medevial town square's pillory'. Western society has become actively anti-dating lately (think: ever since the 1980s). People, especially women, are actively encouraged to scrutinise even minor behaviour for red flags, after all, every man is a potential serial killer. This is so prevalent that we have made movies about that sort of paranoia ... and there are people in treatment over it. Clinically, this is often referred to as hypervigilance/paranoia syndrome, a pattern related to PTSD — both as a consequence of trauma and, paradoxically, as a source of relational dysfunction. This is not meant to downplay the reality of actual assaults. But it points to a deeper systemic issue: The drive to protect against potential violence has, in some circles, taken on a life of its own - and in doing so, it has poisoned trust. So - I do not claim your 4 women were not at some point scared by a guy during a date. But what used to be considered 'assertive, reliable, masculine' behaviour in the 1950s has become 'prelude to slaughter' these days, especially when other factors are present (e.g. 'he doesn't turn out to be Prince Charming that I expected' or 'he decided to split the bill'). So ... if there is an actual case of domestic violence, the solution is not to create an instrument that can be badly abused and does not follow rule of law - it is to go to ... law enforcement, and let the courts deal with it. IF the guy is a problem, let them put him away, rather than slandering him online. | | |
| ▲ | bigfudge 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | For a sense of scale here. One guy had brought a bag of sex toys to a first date. Another called (a different woman) a “dirty bitch” when she declined a second date. Amongst my female friends, I’ve become aware only in my late 40s just how many have suffered sexual assault outside of relationships or controlling and abusive behaviour within them. I guess what I’m saying is that I think women being vigilant is rational behaviour. In my twenties and thirties I just lacked the imagination to see that colleagues and even male friends would behave in this way, but that can and have. I don’t think this site is necessarily the right way to fix the problem, but I can totally understand the motivation. | | |
| ▲ | DocTomoe 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Thank you for providing scale. From how you describe it, these two examples - while unpleasant - likely fall below the threshold for criminal prosecution. And it’s precisely in that gray area where public shaming platforms risk becoming instruments of mob justice. The “sex toy guy” (and yes, I now imagine the most awkward and presumptuous version of that scenario - perhaps with a flourish of presentation) is clearly socially tone-deaf. But if no coercion or violence took place: Should his name and face be broadcast online so he can be branded “The Dildo King” for life? The “dirty bitch” guy? Rude and vulgar, certainly. But how many women have made disparaging comments about men — their height, their hair, their genitals - sometimes in front of them, sometimes with friends? We should strive for dignity and respect on both sides. If we accept social shaming as a norm, it shouldn’t surprise us when the pendulum swings both ways - and no one wins in that world. Was the woman in this case threatened or harmed beyond a verbal outburst? Being in my mid-40s, I’ve also witnessed what a false or misguided accusation can do to a man - careers destroyed, relationships severed, even suicides. What we’re dealing with is a cultural and moral challenge - not a technological one. And cultural problems can only be solved through dialogue, mutual respect, and shared norms - not through factionalism or digital vigilantism. | | |
| ▲ | saagarjha 5 days ago | parent [-] | | What kind of dialogue do you expect to have with these two individuals? | | |
| ▲ | brailsafe 5 days ago | parent [-] | | First: "That makes me deeply uncomfortable, so I'm going to leave" Second: Tough to say, probably nothing if that's the end of the communication. I hear stories pretty regularly of men being misled into taking someone out on the first date, paying for it, and then finding out a second date or anything beyond that was never on the table for one reason or another. It's definitely rude and vulgar, and people should reserve that for special cases. | | |
| ▲ | jrockway 5 days ago | parent [-] | | You sound bitter about women saying "yeah I'll give it a try, I guess" instead of just saying "no". That first date that probably won't be a second date is your chance to do your sales pitch. Overall, I think people are bitter that dating has such a low probability chance in providing the outcome they desire. But you have to know that going in; "you look good in these 3 pictures and I liked your witty quote" is not necessarily going to lead to a lifetime of happiness. You probably have to expect 1000 failures for every success. But you only need one success. | | |
| ▲ | brailsafe 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I can see how I sound that way, but im saying so I think you're assuming more than you should. I meant more like going out on that first date, and then finding out she's a lesbian, but: > That first date that probably won't be a second date is your chance to do your sales pitch. Is the ideal case, and would be the nature of a good date if those were the parameters within which both parties agreed to go out, but if I was actually bitter about: > "yeah I'll give it a try, I guess" instead of just saying "no" I would think that would be a somewhat justified reason to be pissed, maybe, depending on how the circumstances came about and how frequently that occurs, because it's a failure of communication that's quite pervasive and imo insidious outside and inside dating. Conflict avoidance in general leads to ghosting, excessively specific expectations regardless of sex, ambiguity around consent, and not being able to say "no" is a bad thing. > Overall, I think people are bitter that dating has such a low probability chance in providing the outcome they desire. But you have to know that going in; "you look good in these 3 pictures and I liked your witty quote" is not necessarily going to lead to a lifetime of happiness. You probably have to expect 1000 failures for every success. This part I mostly agree with. It's at least an admirable level of pain tolerance and persistence that one would hope pays off eventually, as well as a good way to align yourself. > But you only need one success. If you get really lucky, one success, but let's be real, it's hard to nail it one go, let alone 2 or 3, so I disagree needing one success. Ultimately I don't personally have any reason to be bitter, but I have a lot of early 30s single friends that just... aren't really having much luck for a variety of reasons, including those mentioned above. My friends of both genders, at this point in their life, seem to have a perfect image of what they'd want in a partner, or an accumulation of red flags that—some of which—would be relatively trivial to overcome if you had an established friendship prior. Reminds me of Seinfeld a bit, someone gets caught picking their nose and you can't recover. |
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| ▲ | Yeul 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Before birth control pills women had to make sure that they were never alone with a man. | | |
| ▲ | chneu 6 days ago | parent [-] | | a large part of why nunneries and convents exist is to give women a safe haven from men. | | |
| ▲ | wqaatwt 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Also to get rid of unwanted/illegitimate/“misbehaving” daughters, sisters other relatives. |
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| ▲ | 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | madaxe_again 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’m a guy. I was stabbed by one ex, while she was drunk, dated another girl for a year only for her to suddenly drop the “my boyfriend in the army is coming home” bombshell, and had another relationship that turned into violence and stalking. I think we need to remember that this isn’t a one-way street. | | |
| ▲ | boroboro4 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Of course it’s not, but it’s highly asymmetrical. It’s especially asymmetrical around physical violence and physical vulnerability of women. | | |
| ▲ | huhkerrf 5 days ago | parent [-] | | > In New Zealand, the twenty-one year Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study, published in 1999, reported that of their sample of 1,037 people, 27% of women and 34% of men reported being physically abused by a partner, with 37% of women and 22% of men reporting they had perpetrated intimate partner violence. > A growing body of international research indicated that men and women experience Intimate partner violence in some similar proportions. An example might be a recent survey from Canada's national statistical agency that concluded that "equal proportions of men and women reported being victims of spousal violence during the preceding 5 years (4% respectively)." > The aforementioned surveys indicate that small proportions of men (less than 20% of victims) will tell the police or a health professional about their victimization. This may be due to well-grounded fears that they will be scorned, ridiculed, or disbelieved by these authorities. Your point that it's "highly asymmetrical" is just wrong. > Indeed, a recent research paper by Dr. Elizabeth Bates from the University of Cumbria found that the overarching experience of male IPV victims was that "no one would ever believe me." And it directly contributes to the toxic attitude around male victims of domestic violence. | | |
| ▲ | boroboro4 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Thanks for sharing! I was surprised by it to be honest. The country I’m coming from husbands beating wives were quite common, and I don’t think statistics was as equal as this one. Homicide rates are still asymmetrical, but I was surprised that also not as much (like 1.5 times difference). | | |
| ▲ | madaxe_again 5 days ago | parent [-] | | The reported incidences account for the bias - as the parent notes, men are much less likely to report domestic violence. When I was stabbed, I took myself to hospital and said I did it myself, accidentally - she was a trainee barrister and I didn’t want to fuck her career up, plus “my girlfriend stabbed me” is usually going to get you “oh yeah, and what did you do to deserve it?” and police questioning in response. |
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| ▲ | oguz-ismail 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's some luck you got there |
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| ▲ | parineum 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not disputing any of that but the idea that you can trust what you read on an app like that is the issue. Trust is a hard thing to come by online, even when people aren't anonymous and speaking publicly (Facebook or any other online place where one might use their real name). Giving people the cover of privacy from the person they are reporting about isn't going to increase the veracity of what's posted. We already know how people behave online. It's either naive, ignorant or negligent to think otherwise. |
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