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| ▲ | motorest 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. You haven't been paying attention. Even to this thread. Let me be very clear: The US proved to be a very unreliable and outright hostile partner. At this point, it is not clear whether the US is more hostile to the collective west than the likes of China. Therefore, let the US keep their backyard TSMC. It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. That is the wake-up call. | | |
| ▲ | rob_c 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. Tariffs or no the US wants back in on the construction/manufacturing industry. This is something that should be seen as a good thing. I just wish the EU was so visionary but we're worried about recycling plastics (when we don't use the plastic) or curtailing bad think (rather than open dialogue)... | | |
| ▲ | motorest 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. The US is threatening NATO partners with invasion and annexation, not to mention the moronic tariff war, and you come here talk about "absolutist"? Pathetic. | | |
| ▲ | rob_c 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Basically NATO partners are only suffering from less sales info the US pocket. The US pocket is weakening to allow the US to begin manufacturing. The tarrif "war" for what it is will see an excess of products not sold to the US markets.
The US will not invade. It's a pr move. Frankly if you're bothered with that let's talk about Hawaii and Alaska (or several international trade routes). There's plenty of opportunity that doesn't involve bowing to the petrol dollar and becoming subservient and maybe that can even be done without importing half of the developing world. Don't call people pathetic unless you're actually equipped to engage in conversation. It's demeaning to yourself and is no better than demanding things change for your feelings. Being absolutist is just giving up your ability to take action and control your own life. The biggest victim is yourself and it only hurts others. Take action. Do something and move on with life. Stop being paralyzed by the media left/right/alt/mainstream/pink-lizard-bunny. Go touch grass and be happy. | | |
| ▲ | rfrey 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | You keep isolating the discussion to tariffs, and ignoring the US hostility to former allies, including threatening to invade two NATO members, as well as US support for Russia against the west in active wars. Tariffs can be a reasonable policy (although not when implemented like this... rejuvenating manufacturing by imposing huge tariffs on raw materials? Really?) but when people talk about the US abandoning the western democracies they're not talking exclusively or even primarily about tariffs. Saying the equivalent of "Oh, that's just Trump talk" is nonsense. Everybody thought Trump's support for Russia was just talk. He's deployed active military on US soil. He's ignored the judiciary and is progressively neutering them. All that was "just Trump being Trump" before he did it. The man is a mad king and half of America is happy to follow him for the lolz. |
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| ▲ | eli_gottlieb 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The United States is about half of the "collective West", the EU being the other largest single body. | | |
| ▲ | motorest 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > The United States is about half of the "collective West", the EU being the other largest single body. The EU represents 27 sovereign states. NATO has 32 members. The US population is around 75% of the population of the EU. And now decided to break off political, diplomatic, economic and defense ties. I don't think this fact dawned upon you people. I mean, recently the EU basically banned the US defense industry from supplying EU's armed forces, which was unthinkable only a few years ago and it takes place during a rearmament push to prevent Russia's imperialist agenda. You can't whine about isolationism and still expect partners to still consider you relevant. |
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| ▲ | rfrey 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your country has threatened, out of nowhere, to annex my country - until now America's oldest and most steadfast ally - or failing that to destroy our economy until we capitulate. I do not feel united. And, echoing you, how is that not unreliable? |
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