I've seen an interesting A-B test with this seeing the difference in clutch wear between the Ferrari F1 transmission in the 599 and 612 and the DuoSelect transmission which is essentially the same box in the Quattroporte. The shifting strategy and technique is more of a controlled variable here because the shifting is automatic though it's a somewhat traditional manual gearbox with hydraulic actuation. The QP is a bit heavier but the Ferraris make a lot more power. From what I saw the cars that fared far worse were the Quattroportes, and those that ate the most clutches by far were the ones putting around the city, especially in San Francisco, Marin, Los Altos Hills, etc. where people are slowly creeping into parking spots on hills. On the Ferraris that are weekend warriors that get driven hard the clutches could go 30k+ miles no problem, Quattroportes would come in with smoked clutches in a few thousand miles sometimes.

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dotancohen a day ago | parent | next [-]

Everything on the QPs was always breaking.

I've never driven an automatic Ferrari or paddle shifted Ferrari to compare, but the QP that I drove (Ferrari V-8, I think that it even said Ferrari on the valve covers maybe) didn't have anything outstanding about the transmission that I remember. I thought it was a regular hydraulic automatic with a torque converter, so they really did tune it nicely. The robotic Toyotas I could feel. Maybe had they not tuned it so nicely it might have lasted longer?

	▲	frollogaston a day ago \| parent [-]
		Only the 2004-2006 and maybe some 2007 QPs came in automated manual. Anything after was regular automatic w/ torque converter.

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jve 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sorry, ain't native: Which car use downshifting to help braking? Cannot wire in my brains whether this example is pro-downshift braking or not.

	▲	masklinn 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		I think their point is that you eat clutch when you slip it e.g. when you’re getting in and out if parking on hills, or in city stop and go traffic. When the clutch is fully engaged there’s little wear even hard-driving, and doing a straight in-and-out does not bother clutches much. Hence Quattroportes eating clutches like nobody’s business while the harder-ridden higher-power Ferraris don’t. As such downshifting would not wear clutches much. And anecdotally I’ve never suffered from or heard of engine braking causing clutch issues.

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frollogaston 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I semi-daily drive a DuoSelect Quattroporte, but usually in light traffic. The clutch-eating problem is sorta inherent to the car. First off, it uses extra clutch to smooth out shifts in non-sport mode, and you don't always want sport mode because it stiffens the suspension a lot. But even in sport, you can't always get it to behave predictably. So given an experienced driver with both cars in city traffic, the DuoSelect will eat clutch faster than a stick. Some install an aftermarket box (Formula Dynamics) to improve this, but still.

Idk how the Ferraris are different. They're lighter at least. Think they also have a different version of the "Superfast" software.

Anyway... I do engine-brake it. The real brakes appreciate not having to stop that limo by themselves.

	▲	frollogaston 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Forgot to clarify, there is a clutch-eating problem when driving the car properly, but it's not THE clutch-eating problem people talk about where it dies in 10-15K miles from treating the car as a regular automatic.