Remix.run Logo
owenversteeg 2 days ago

For those that are getting into cocktails, by far the best piece of advice I can give is: know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t. If it’s a very sugary/salty drink, or people are smoking, or already drunk, most people won’t care, but for a lot of cocktails the ingredients make a massive difference. The best bang for your buck is Carpano Antica, a sweet vermouth with real complexity to it; the worst value is high end vodka.

crystal_revenge 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

My advice would be: Every cocktail has an unlisted ingredient that makes or breaks the drink - ice water.

Shaking or stirring a cocktail doesn’t just make it colder, it dilutes it as well. Getting this right is very often the difference between a good and bad drink.

I demonstrated this once when a friend complained that it was so hard to get a good cocktail, especially getting good ingredients. All they had in their kitchen was some gin and some other slightly floral novelty liqueur. I just took a spoon and a glass and stirred them something based on the ratios for a martini and they said it was one of the best cocktails they have had!

Balancing chill and dilution, even in more complex drinks, is essential.

A good way to experiment is to make batch chilled cocktails in which case you need to explicitly measure out the water you’re adding.

avanai 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The other magic ingredient is salt. A tiny pinch of salt can balance out sour and bitter flavors in surprising ways, and be otherwise undetectable. I’ve “fixed” a lot of cocktails that way.

lawik 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

This reminds me of when a student pub hosted a wedding party. As we got to the dance floor there were drinks on offer. I grabbed a Cuba Libre and essentially went "oh, that's the roughest on I've had, must be cheap cola on truly awful booze". Kept on sipping. Someone else complained. Then another one. We go back to investigate. Bartender has a taste. Grimacing.

Like bad and maybe salty?

Takes a minute before they track it down. They'd mixed up the salted ice cubes they used to keep champagne cold with the ones they use for drinks.

That one was rough. I had politely worked through my drink before we launched the investigation. Good party though and I did get a new drink which tasted fine.

I'm sure a tiny pinch can do wonders. Salted cubes, not recommended.

codyb 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A little pinch of salt in the water is recommended for drip coffee as well to add a pop to the flavors and reduce bitterness.

FuriouslyAdrift 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

weirdly, a few drops of maraschino liqueur (I go for Lazzaroni) can "stretch" out the flavors of a lot of "brown" liquors. I have no idea why. It kind of adds a strange almond-ish flavor on the finish, though.

hattmall 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah one thing that makes a huge difference is that you mix your ingredients in the shaker with ice. Then strain and serve over fresh ice if it's called for.

jjice 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t.

Very good point. The first time I had a Gin and Tonic with a fresh squeezed lime half and a good tonic water was mind blowing. I had thought that sour mix was just as good as a fresh lime and that all tonic water was the same, but man I was wrong.

cpfohl 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I like to doctor bad sweet vermouths with a barspoon of Cynar. Goes a long way to add the missing complexity, and if you're sparing enough even a Cynar hater won't mind it.

djoldman 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I do enjoy Antica.

That being said, IMHO sweet vermouths vary a lot. Enough that I'd pick one over another depending on the cocktail.

wrsh07 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

And they taste good/interesting on their own. If you're making drinks at home, try out the ingredients! I rather like a sweet vermouth, and you can feature it strongly in eg a gin and it https://newsletter.anthonygladman.com/p/all-hail-the-gin-and...

Some recipes call for 1:2 ratio, but the 1:1 works well! Give it a try

FuriouslyAdrift 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Punt et Mes is also really good but very different flavor profile. More like the historic flavor of "sweet" vermouth which was actually more bitter.

bryanlarsen 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> worst value is high end vodka.

For mixing, definitely. If you're drinking it straight, the subtle complexity of a good vodka is nice.

miketery 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

You don’t need to spend anything more than kettle one. It’s a super simple lab process it’s not like whiskey which has a lot of complexity.

FuriouslyAdrift 2 days ago | parent [-]

Biggest differences I see are between grain and potato based. I love rye base vodka. It has a sutle sweetness and almost oily mouth feel. I go for Sobieski most of the time.

mgaunard 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People who never had Belvedere or Chopin simply don't know that a vodka shot doesn't have to be a painful experience.

johnisgood 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Vodka for some reason has always made me nauseated and it often did result in vomiting. None of the other alcohols have ever made me nauseated or nor made me puke, not even in high, undiluted amounts. So I realized if I do want to get drunk, I cannot go wrong with whiskey.

Maybe there is a vodka that would be different.

mgaunard 2 days ago | parent [-]

Whisky will typically give you a worse experience the day after.

High-grade vodka is about producing a product free of impurities for the cleanest possible flavour. High-grade whisky is about capturing as many impurities as possible (particularly wood and peat) for a more complex flavour.

johnisgood 2 days ago | parent [-]

I never had hangover from whiskey though, but that is only my personal experience.

mgaunard 2 days ago | parent [-]

There is a huge variety of whiskies (even if restricting things to "whiskey", i.e. American or Irish) so that might depend on the product.

Also people experience the morning after differently I guess. As I get older whisky and red wine tend to hit harder.

kingnothing 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The nice thing is Chopin is only $20 these days, too. There was a massive price drop a few years back that has fortunately stuck.

Barbing 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does this bear out in double-blind tests?

antonvs 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If it's not 100% pure ethanol, are you even a connoisseur?

TheBoozyGenius 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Finally someone who ''Gets It''.

azhenley 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you have a ranked list of items that pay off to spend a bit more versus doesn’t matter?

yojo 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

General rules for cocktails:

- Avoid the big brands for Tequila and Rum (Cuervo and Bacardi). There are exceptions, but it’s easier to skip.

- Cheap gin can be good or bad. Gordon’s is a reasonable entry. The step up is Beefeater or Tanqueray. There are a bajillion craft gins and you can skip them until you’re ready to go deep.

- Tequila should always say 100% puro de agave on the bottle. If it does not say this, do not buy it.

- Anything that says “straight bourbon” on the bottle is probably fine.

- For scotch, look for single malt (best) or blended malt (acceptable) if you plan on sipping it. For mixers, I like Bank Note or Famous Grouse. Avoid the lower tiers of the big blends (Johnny Walker, Dewars, etc) - they are mostly grain alcohol.

- I don’t have an opinion on Vodka. If you do for some reason want it, Polish brands seem to be the best value (Sobieski, Luksusowa, etc).

- For “rye” look for something bottled in bond. Don’t pick up a Canadian rye unless you know what you’re doing. They are not the same, and most Canadian rye is not good.

- Rum is kind of hard. There are actually very different styles appropriate for different things, and tons of brands at similar price points that can be great or awful. For funk, look for Hamilton pot still, Rum Bar, Wray and Nephew, Doctor Bird, or Smith and Cross. For a cleaner style, look at Plantation 3 star as an entry level.

- always squeeze your own citrus juice (lemon/lime/orange). Orange should not be squeezed ahead of time. Lemon/Lime can be done a few hours before or to order, depending on personal preference.

- skip Rose’s anything (grenadine, cordial, etc).

- Angostura is a great all-around bitter. Add Regan’s Orange bitters and you’re all set unless you want to go deep on the hobby.

I have spent a lot of time in this rabbit hole, happy to answer specific questions.

scosman 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Rye refers to different things in Canada and the US. Canadian Ryes can be excellent, and Canada makes some excellent rye grain whiskey. Don’t sub it in the wrong ingredient assuming it’s equivalent, then claim it’s mostly not good.

yojo 2 days ago | parent [-]

A lot of Canadian Rye uses a lot of grain alcohol. If you pick a bottle at random off the shelf (assuming US market), it’s unlikely to be good.

There are many great Canadian Ryes. But if you’re new to cocktails, odds are against you finding them at your local liquor store, and you probably don’t need them for the drink you’re trying to make. I didn’t mean to disparage the category. Lot 40 and Alberta Dark Horse/Dark Batch have earned their accolades.

scosman 2 days ago | parent [-]

If you're picking random bottles of the shelf you're not going to have a good time with any category. Tequila, rum, American whiskey, etc -- the most popular stuff is pretty bad.

You did disparage the category, but it still seems based off not understanding what it is. The listed Canadian whiskeys are great and meet the US definition of Rye, but Canadian Rye is a bigger category with lots of great stuff to explore. Just don't substitute it into the wrong drink and blame the bottle.

yojo 2 days ago | parent [-]

I agree rum is hard. I said as much in my post.

Tequila is fine as long as you grab a bottle that says 100% Puro De Agave. Compliance requires it be all blue agave with no sugars or additives. It might have lost a lot of character to an autoclave, but it won’t be gross.

It is hard to go wrong grabbing a bottle of straight bourbon. By law to be bourbon there are assurances about the contents - no sugar/flavor/color added, aged in new charred barrels, minimum 51% corn, etc. Straight rye (or better yet BiB) has similar guarantees.

Canadian Rye does not have these requirements. It could be 5% rye and 95% wheat in fourth-fill barrels. It could have sugar added. It could have weird flavors added. You should know what you’re doing if you’re shopping Canadian Rye. I can’t give you a one liner on how to avoid the traps.

But most importantly, this is a thread about cocktails, and you have to get pretty deep into craft cocktails before you find any that call for Canadian rye. I am trying to give rules of thumbs for newbies to avoid common pitfalls, one of which is seeing a drink that calls for “rye” and grabbing a bottle of Canadian rye.

On that note, if you have some great recipes calling for Canadian rye, I’d love to hear them. I’ve got a bottle each of Forty Creek Copper Pot and Crown Northern harvest that are languishing on my shelf.

mNovak 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'll add to this, there's no reason to buy simple syrup! You can make it in a mug in the microwave in 30s, and it'll hold in the fridge for a while.

And the only counterpoint is pineapple juice, which you should just buy in the can -- it doesn't hold long at all once in air.

yojo 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Absolutely make your own syrups! If you add a little bit of alcohol to your simple syrup (I use vodka or a clean rum), you can drastically extend the shelf life.

Honey syrup is even easier to make, just mix 50/50 honey and hot water. Subbing for simple syrup gives interesting results in most drinks.

Grenadine is also super easy - buy a bottle of POM and mix juice 50:50 with sugar. I like to add a little pomegranate molasses (get at a middle-east specialty market) to kick up the flavor, but not necessary.

Re: pineapple. If you are able to press your own pineapple juice you absolutely should, but agree that most people do not have the necessary equipment. Trader Joe’s sells bottles of fresh pressed pineapple juice that is excellent, if you’re fortunate enough to live by one. Otherwise yeah, canned is the way to go.

jaredhallen 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sometimes I just make a Tbsp or two of simple syrup in a shot glass in the microwave. It takes about 10 seconds.

d3ckard 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On vodka: Sobieski is not a good brand and "Luksusowa" is fine, but it's made of potatoes.

Personally, I strongly prefer vodkas made of wheat, they tend to be smoother and sit better (and the hangover is anegdotically less of a problem).

Also, people who think vodka quality doesn't matter clearly never drank a lot of vodka.

FuriouslyAdrift 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Sobieski is my fav as I prefer rye grain vodka. Russian Standard Platinum was my go to for "clean" tasting vodka.

cinntaile 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Recommend some good brands, you have your opportunity here.

d3ckard 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Absolut (Swedish) is my go to vodka, as even in Poland it's widely available and good quality.

From Polish brands, black Żubrówka, Ostoya and Chopin are good. Normal Żubrówka (the one with grass) is nice as well, but it's not neutral vodka (recommend with apple juice).

And obviously Belvedere is the fancy brand.

brokencipher 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Personally I found Krepkaya the best I have ever tasted. Unfortunately very hard to find in my country these days

quantum_magpie 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Finlandia and Absolut

FuriouslyAdrift 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

For gin (dry style) gor Beefeater or Brokers.

For the floral styles then there's all kinds out there. Leopold Brothers is very intersting if you can find it. Also Monkey 47... pricey though.

nycdatasci 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If the goal is to get drunk, there are lots of cheap ways to do it and it's fine to buy high-fructose-corn-syrup-based "mixers". If you're looking for great cocktails, consider the PDT (Please Don't Tell) book and/or app by Jim Meehan. When his recipes call for lemon juice, you'll be buying and squeezing (do not buy "fresh squeezed lemon juice"). If you want more of a sensory experience, take recipes from the Aviary in Chicago (they also sell a book). Prepare to spend several days preparing each drink.

refactor_master 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's just simple food science really. Cooling things down reduces harshness and complexity. Sweetening things reduces harshness and complexity. So if you're going for something cool and sweet, don't mix it with high end liquors, because you probably won't really notice a big difference.

addaon 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

#1) Good Maraschino cherries or similar.

technothrasher 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Amarena Fabbri cherries are my go to for a Manhattan. So much better than even the good Maraschinos.

addaon 2 days ago | parent [-]

Agreed.

terribleperson 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Good maraschino cherries are expensive and yet so incredibly good they're absolutely worth it.

The syrup they're in is also incredible.

addaon 2 days ago | parent [-]

I have never poured them into a cereal bowl with whole milk and used a spoon.

Or so I claim.

yojo 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Antica is very particular, IMO. It’s good, but lots of vanilla flavor, which doesn’t work everywhere. Honestly Martini and Rossi is totally adequate, and I wouldn’t bother stepping up until your palette is dialed in.

jen729w 2 days ago | parent [-]

I think anyone could immediately appreciate the difference between a negroni made with Antica vs. Rossi. It's night and day. The Antica lends a far deeper flavour vs. the brash sweetness of the Rossi.

The gin, on the other hand: just get the cheapest stuff you can find. Our go-to was Aldi's store brand.

Campari, of course, has the middle ingredient all stitched up.

yojo 2 days ago | parent [-]

I still disagree. The vanilla is just too much in a negroni. I’d rather use Dolin, or the Death & Co 50/50 Dolin/Punt e Mes mix if I think I can get through both bottles before they oxidize.

But Martini & Rossi is fine. It does the job well enough to understand the drinks, and you can start trying the pricier stuff once you decide if you even like them.

Also, hard disagree on “buy the cheapest gin.” Gordon’s is better than everything else on the bottom shelf at a regular liquor store, but often costs a buck or two more. Way better than Seagrams, or something like New Amsterdam that isn’t even a London Dry. I don’t have an Aldi to compare to. Kirkland Signature is fine if we’re doing store brands.

No argument on Campari. That’s just truth.