It's insane too. Because many of us working on AI were working on it for different reasons. To me, it was to liberate us. To let me go spend more time outside, to stare at trees, and ask people "can I pet your dog?"

We use language and images because they are easier to evaluate. Because we don't know what to actually evaluate. So it's as good of a direction as any, right?

I'm not sure if another direction would have had a different result. But it feels like now we're trying to create AGI by turning humans into robots. It can create works of art, poetry, music, but it has no soul, no depth.

This should tell us that we've still have a long way to go to make AGI, that this ineffable depth needs further exploration. To learn what it truly means to be human (which definitely requires time outside). But I feel many of my peers do not want to see this. It feels like I'm being gaslight. It's like everyone is raving about the genius of Rauschenberg's White Paintings [3 panel], and I see a canvas waiting to be filled. Am I really so out of touch? To think it weird to talk about the "gospel" of Ilya or Karpathy? It seems everyone has found religion/god, but me.

I can see the beauty of a sunset, of a crashing wave, of the complexity of the atom so delicately constructed, the abstraction and beauty of math, but maybe I just do not have a refined enough taste to appreciate the genius of a blank canvas with no soul. Is not the beauty in what it can become? Because I thought the point was to make life. I thought the point was to give it a soul.

▲ mlsu 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My intellectual strategy to get to the bottom of these grand questions is very straightforward: look at my own life and evaluate what’s important.

In my life, I have found the answer to these questions. Telling a joke and making a colleague laugh. Looking at my 1yo niece crawling toward me. Hanging out in the garden with my wife and my dogs.

I look at these things, and it’s just so obvious. AI boyfriends? Ai email readers or AI taxi drivers or AI app makers? I can talk to a Tesla robot behind the counter at Wendy’s instead of a bored teenager? And that’s gonna ~transform~ my life? What?

You are right to point out that these questions are not adequately resolved. They never will be, not in the abstract and certainly not by technology. In some sense this dialogue has been happening for thousands of years, starting with Plato or before. “What is the point?”

When I was younger I used to wonder a lot intellectually about this stuff as many do but I’ve realized pretty recently that the answer is right here in my own short life and it has god damn nothing to do with technology.

I like solving puzzles and programming and I have a half built robot in the garage. But I will never confuse that with my living breathing niece. They just aren’t the same, my god isn’t it obvious!?

> now we're trying to create AGI by turning humans into robots

Very succinctly put.

	▲	godelski 18 hours ago \| parent [-]
		`> look at my own life and evaluate what’s important.` I draw on this too. In fact, I draw on many of the same things as you. I also love to watch my cat play. I spend countless hours wondering about how she thinks. It helps bond us as I train her and play with her. I love to watch the birds sing, to watch them fly in their elegant dance. They way they just know. To watch them feed on my balcony, at first nervous of my cat who is not half as sneaky as she thinks, and watch them acclimate, to learn she just wants to watch. I could go on and on. There are so many beautiful things hidden in plain sight. What I've learned is that the most human thing, is to look. That it is these connections that make us. Connections to one another. Connections to other animals. Connections to inanimate objects. We've thought about these questions for thousands of years, can it really be as simple as "to be human is to be able to look at someone you've never seen before, with just a glance, without words spoke, but to share a laugh that can't words cannot explain." It just seems so complex. I still wonder, as I did as I was younger. But I wonder in a very different way. Not all questions can be answered, and that's okay. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask them, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't ask more. It just means that the point of asking is more than about getting the answer. And that's exactly what I hate about AI these days. It's why they have no soul. We created a button to give us answers. But, we forgot that wasn't always the point of asking. It feels like we are trying to destroy mystery. Not by learning and exploring, but through religion.

▲ viccis 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Because many of us working on AI were working on it for different reasons. To me, it was to liberate us. To let me go spend more time outside, to stare at trees, and ask people "can I pet your dog?"

If you think automation or any other increase in productivity is passed back down to workers, then I'd say I have a bridge to sell you, but you probably already bought 5 of them.

	▲	godelski 18 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It is easy to be blinded by our passions[0]. I still believe it is possible. I'm not in it for the money. I'm not doing this because it pays well or the clout. I do it because it is a captivating problem. I do it because these questions draw me in. I am aware of many risk, many that are not even being discussed[1]. But I'll also tell you, I don't want to talk to most of my peers. I don't see that same passion. Most want to go to parties and make lots of money. Rather, I seek my peers who have similar passions. They may have different beliefs, different ideas, and we may even argue and fight. But the reason we do it is because we're trying to solve this great mystery. It is getting harder and harder to find them. Tbh, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with doing things for money, to do things without passion. (I don't think this excuses abuse, theft, lying, or the multitude of things I think you're thinking about. We're probably more aligned than you think. I don't think I'm your enemy here. In fact, I think we have one in common. Even if you wish to be my enemy, I do not wish to be yours) Some people are just trying to get by in this crazy world. But we're not talking about that, are we. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44568337 [1] I even specifically use a handle to feel like I have the liberty to speak more openly about these things.